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Daisy staysail

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
My boat came with a UK sail called a "Daisy Staysail". I have not hoisted it, but it appears to be like a drifter only made of mylar. I am told it is designed to be flown with a spinnaker, but on the opposite side (that's asking for trouble). Has anyone ever seen one used, with or without a spinnaker?
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I have heard of this type of sail, but have no familiarity with it. Why not ask UK Sails, via their web site, or thru a nearby loft.
You could even call the UK NW loft, at:
1-800-563-7245, and ask for Tim Knight, or one of his fellow sailmakers. Tell him I said hello.

Loren in Portland, OR
 

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
I did a little research and it is apparently designed to be flown inside the spinnaker to improve flow over the main. However, it is supposed to be attached back from the head stay and I don't know how you would do that. The PO said I would never use the sail and he's right.

This year I did invest in in a UK TapeDrive genoa - what a difference it makes over my former Doyle dacron gennie. When I got the boat, the head sail was a mylar deck sweeper on a TuffLuff headfoil, which made the boat go like a rocket. But I couldn't use it after switching to roller furling.
 

Nick Reynolds

Member II
Asking for Trouble......

What you describe sounds like a blooper. I was reviewing Sail Power by Wallace Ross, and he describes a sail that flies on the opposite side of the boat from the spinnaker.

He said that it was originally developed from a genoa, and that the genoa can be used this way, so I tried it on my prior boat. The way it is to be flown is from the jib halyard, without being hanked on the headstay. Then a short (3' or 4') pendant is tied to the tack and the forestay fitting at the deck. Then the sheet is run through a block on the end of the boom. In order to make this work, I had to run directly downwind (kind of hard to do here the way the Columbia River is laid out in relation to prevailing winds.) The idea is to fly it out far enough from the boat that it stays filled. The pendant at the bottom, and the halyard not peaked let it fly quite wide of the boat. I never made it work well. Your mylar sail would probably work a lot better, my genoa was pretty heavy, and I had a difficult time keeping it filled.

Once you have the spinnaker under contro, this could be a fun way to add some sail area. On my prior boat, it came very close to causing a mutiny, the crew wasn't as excited about it as I was.

So, give it a try and let us know how it goes. It could be fun. It could be asking for trouble......
 

Nigel Barron

Notorious Iconoclast
Staysail

I use a staysail with some frequency and find it to be a perfect compliment to an A-Sail. The tack attaches to a hard point halfway between the forestay and the mast, and is flown and trimmed like a jib. It gives considerable extra drive. I would assume it can be flown with a symmetrical kite, but again, not when sailing deep.

Nigel
 

Seth

Sustaining Partner
Originally posted by Geoff Johnson
What do you attach the tack to?
Jeff,

The Daisy staysail serves 2 purposes; it's primary function is to be used under a spinnaker (symmetrical or A-sail-as long as you are using a pole). It is typically tacked 1/3 of the way back from the bow to the mast There is usually a padeye there that may also be used for the forguy, but this is the normal attachment point. Tack it here until you have the pole squared way back (maybe 140-170 apparent). At these angles it is best to move the tack to the windward rail (typically at the first or 2nd stanchion base back from the bow). This is to get the sail more exposed to the breeze when it is coming from astern. It will normally sheet close to the front end of the outboard track.

They need some breeze to be useful-usually at least 8-10 knots TWS. So, at angles of 90-140 app, tack on centerline. Angles deeper than 140 go to the windward rail. Always sheet it a little soft as it will suck the air out of the kite if it is overtrimmed.

The other use is as a Windseeker. When the wind dies and speed goes to 0, drop the kite of Genoa (it is OK even upwind in VERY light air) and hoist it tacked at the bow just behing the headstay (like a loose luff jib). Sheet it roughly from the same spot (sheet angle should bisect the clew and extend to a point about 60% if the way up the luff).

Let it fill anyway it can, and on any side (use 2 sheets in this mode). When the boat starts moving again, I stay with it until I have a solid 2-3 knots of speed, then carefully raise the Genoa or Spinnaker again.

The theory is that a small, non-overlapping sail will fill easier and not suck air off the mainsail when slatting back and forth in waves (like the genoa will do).

They are very effective when used correctly-and this is NOT a blooper (something you don't want or need).

Seth Morrell
Doyle Sails Chicago
 

SingPilot

Moderator
I also have one of these, and recently (in the last year or so), saw one being flown on the cover of one of the many sail mags I get. I think it was either Atts and Lats or Latitude 38.
 

Sid

BOATBUMMS
Wind seeker

In all the boats I raced in that had that sail, we called it a wind seeker and when you're racing in so cal it is a must. Seth you're right thats exactly what a Daisy is it's a great dual purpose sail.
 

Seth

Sustaining Partner
Windsdeeker

Pretty much. Any daisy staysail will make a very good "windseeker/drifter"-these 2 terms are interchangeable. But a sail designed to be a windseeker/drifter may not work well as a staysail.

It is common to see sailbags labeled "staysail/drifter", or "staysail/windseeker" so your observation is right.

The trick is that if a sail was designed only to be a windseeker, it might be too long on the luff and not have a good sheeting position because as a windseeker it is tacked at the bow and trimmed like a jib, so when you move it 30% of the way back to the mast it could be too long and too big to be an effective staysail.

Whereas if you take a sail designed to be flown from the normal staysail tack point and be trimmed from this position, it will definitely fit when tacked at the bow (although a little short on the luff) when used as a windseeker/drifter.

Clear as mud?:nerd:
 

Nigel Barron

Notorious Iconoclast
Nigel, you still here???

I'm back! Alas, I am no longer an owner of my E27. I skipper a 53' custom race boat, and was just not sailing my boat enough, so a few years back before the last Transpac sold the boat. The good news is that she sort of stayed in the family, being sold to a friends cousin in Vancouver BC.
 

upnorthfrank

Member II
I believe there's a mounting point on our C26 for this, I saw one once I think on a boat out there...

This is a great site for stuff like this. Sometimes I go to other sites to see what kind of info is flying around, & this site always seems to have the most & best help. Attaboy mates!!!
 

Mark F

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Hi Nigel,

It's been a while. I was wondering how effective the bigger main was on Green Card. Did you notice more tenderness?

Do you think the new owners of Green Card would want to trade my old dirty partial battened main for their fancy large roached main ;-)?
 
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