all rope halyards instead of rope to wire

Some time ago there was a discussion about using all rope halyards instead of rope to wire. I have a E-27 and want to create a longer halyard so I can create a fair leeds to the cockpit. I would also be interested in knowing the best way to accomplish bringing the line aft. Any photos would be great!

I want to make sure the line I use is thin enough to go through the blocks at the top of the mast. What gage line should I use?

I am trying to set my boat up to be more user friendly as a single hander.

Thanks

Jeff

One other thing.

One other thing. I would like to do this without taking the mast down.

Thanks

Jeff

Line notes

Lots of us have made this change over the last decade. Determining factor seems to be the sheave size at the top of the mast. Some older boats will have a narrow one for wire, some have a double-groove one for rope and wire, and some will have a wide enough one for reasonable rope diameter.
This is a situation where "size matters"...

Almost any good quality low stretch line will be strong enough, but (!)... it has to be large enough to handle without cutting into the hands of the crew.
Also, it needs to work/grip in your clutch stoppers (if you have 'em) as well as the existing rope tails on your wire-to-rope halyards.

In real numbers, a 3/16 or quarter inch line would have more than enough strength, but you would probably much rather handle a 5/16 or 3/8 line, for the sake of comfort to your hands.
Sta-Set X would be a good basic line choice, or move up to T-900.
Note that, with experience and study, you can build a "tappered" halyard with only the part that goes thru your housetop stoppers and winches being fat. I have not done this, but riggers turn these out all the time.
In effect, you can create the effect of the sizing of the old wire-to-rope combo, but without the meathooks and with a lot less weight aloft.

Sometimes, technology can be A Good Thing...

Apropo of nothing in particular, we went with 5/16 T-900 on our 34 footer. I tried some 3/8, but it is really a bit too snug going over the sheave at the top of the spar. As to strength, the 5/16 is rated at 7000#...
:

Good luck on your project.

Keep us posted,

Loren in Portland, OR

Thank You Loren for your very speedy response.

Thank You Loren for your very speedy response.

I was hoping not to have to go up the mast but I guess I have to, to check the sheave size. I think I will discuss this with a professional rigger as well. Not sure where and what the clutch stoppers are.

I am still interested is setting up fair leeds from the main to the cockpit on my E-27 as well. Examples would be appreciated.


Thanks

Jeff

"clutch stopper"

Here is a pic of a clutch stopper, found at one of many retail sources on line.
Lewmar, IMHO, has one of the best designs. You can ease out line with one these without abraiding the line.
This pic replaces a pic on a "dead" link, now long gone from a hardware site.

Loren

Thanks, no I don't have those, just cleats. Looks like a good idea though.

Picture of clutch stopper in use...

I found a small picture of the port side of our housetop, showing the clutches mounted in front of the winch.
Hope this helps.

Loren in PDX

caution: the following contains opinions...

Jeff: You and I have the same boat and I can tell you that the sheeves are grooved for either wire or rope. 3/8" max. on the rope dia. but I think I would go with 5/16".

But...

I know there are good reasons for wanting all rope halyards but there are also some very good reasons for sticking to wire/rope as the boat was originally equiped. I know that new wire/rope is more expensive, (I just bought one), but they don't stretch and the sun won't kill them at the masthead. The all rope halyard is always under constant exposure to the sun and elements where they turn at the top over the sheeves.

Ericson was proud of the fact that they equiped all their yachts with wire/rope halyards. The fact is, your halyards (and mine), are probably originals, right? Not bad for 30 years!

Yea, I know... Right now those old wire halyards are full of rusty old meat hooks and you've have already spilt blood and you hate them, but if you replace them now and stick with wire/rope, you shouldn't get stuck again for twenty years or so...

Your soft and comfortable rope halyards won't last half that long.

Good points.

Good points.

I think I may do that, besides they are already pre-made. Do you know what length you bought? I want a little longer so I can run it back to the cockpit through a fair lead system. Probably another 15 feet or so.

Where did you get yours?

Thanks

Jeff
Skipper, Pride of Cucamonga

30' 1/8" wire, 30' 5/16" line, West Marine Catalog, page 851 ($104.99). Also in 40' length.

Thanks you very much! See ya out there!

Wire to rope halyard conversion question

I have been debating on whether to replace my wire halyards with rope, or to splice new rope to my existing wire halyards.

We have a 1988 38-200.

I haven't been up the mast as yet, as part of this project.

I have a couple of questions. I'm hoping another 38-200 owner has already done this.
1. Could someone tell me what size rope halyards will fit?
2. Will I need to replace the sheeves? If so what size will I need.
3. If I don't have to replace the sheeves, will I need to sand them smooth? I have been told that the wire halyards chew up the sheeves and to get maximum rope life I should replace or sand the sheeves smooth.

Thanks,
Bob

If you use the word -sheave- and do a search, there are several good threads that discuss this.
Here's just one:
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=4711&highlight=sheave

Years after converting our halyards over, we would never go back to wire...

Regards,
Loren

Hi Loren,

Thanks! I'll check it out.

Also, thanks for providing the proper pelling for sheave.

Enjoy,
Bob

Halyards

Jeff
Brought both my halyards aft last summer and just finished bringing a single line reef and vang leads aft as well.

Used 5/16 spectra for the halyards. 80' length leaves me about 5' after the clutches. Used the same length for both halyards. Oh yeah, rope clutches and blocks get more expensive for 3/8 line and 3/8 was a tight fit in my sheaves. 5/16 works perfect...

Will try to post picture later this week.

Grant Kiba
'73 E27, #406
Antioch, CA

halyards...

Hey Bob,
I did this last year on our '88 38-200. 3/8ths for everything (I think a few people have gone 7/16ths and had no issues, but I went with 3/8ths which was spec for the rig), no need to change the sheaves. Our sheaves were actually fine, no burrs at all. All it took was running a leader line through from the old halyard and pulling the new one back through with it.
My hands love me for it.
Chris

E27 Halyards

Jeff,
Here are the pictures. I have a tabernackeled mast that's not in the best of shape. Lots of drilled holes from the PO. The red line in the first picture is the main halyard. The shackel is stowed back on it's self. Not a great practice but it's convienent. The block on the sail is for the reef line. I have a block mounted on the front and rear grommets. Cuts a lot of friction. The unused clutch position on the port side is for another reef line.

Grant Kiba
'73 E27, #406

Halyards

Chris,
Thanks for the information. My mind is made up. I will replace the wire halyards with 3/8 line.

Our season is about over here, so I'll measure my halyards and then order the line over the winter.

Thanks again,
Bob

Rope Halyards

Bob,

Looking at the strength of today’s rope for halyards you can even use 5/16 or ¼ which is still an over kill for your boat in regards to strength needed. Dependig on which type of rope you choose. 5/16 line is a little cheaper in cost. 3/8 will be a little easier on the hands - larger diameter. On my Ericson 31C I replaced the halyards with 5/16 line for both the main and jib. On my previous boat a Tartan 10 (33 ft one design racing machine) I used ¼ for the main halyard and 5/16 for the headsails. For the T 10 I was most concerned with the weight aloft so I went as small diameter as I could. On the 31C I wasn’t too concerned with weight.

Good luck,

Brian

Hi Brian,

Thanks for the input. I think what I'll do is measure the line size of my existing halyards and replace them with like sized line. I like the way my current halyards feel.

Thanks again,
Bob