Florida to Cuba trips

Someone on this list knows the answer to this, I am sure. What is the current legality of a US registered boat and US skipper making a (strictly tourist) trip from Florida to Cuba? How about a Canadian crew in the same (US registered) boat? How about a Canadian crew in a Canadian reg'd boat?

Thanks a lot
Roger Ware
Kingston, ON

I am no lawyer, but there was a lot of discussion of the subject in the Gulf boating newspaper during the years I was there, which was until 2004, and I doubt it has changed since then.

US law has no provision against travel to any other country. But boaters who went there were charged on their return with breaking the embargo, on the grounds that they had spent US dollars in Cuba. There was even one race to Havana from Florida where the organisers got legal advice that they should be OK, but customs walked up and down the dock, just before the boats set sail, handing out notices that there would be dire consequences for any sailors who participated. Several were charged with offences when they got back, which they could not afford to defend. It was highly controversial, and had never been tested in court - there was talk that such a restriction violated constitutional rights, but any such decision would be taken by the government to the supreme court, and no boaters had the money for that kind of campaign.

Morgan may be able to add more, he only went there after receiving special permission as a journalist (the trip is a great story when he tells it).

For a Canadian, I have read that there are no restrictions on travel to Cuba, thanks to successfully fighting off the yahoos from the south in 1812. But the US registered boat could cause a problem, I have never heard of that kind of situation before, and I dare say it has ever been tested in court either. You would likely face harrassment if you pulled into a US port after leaving Havana, as, based on the reports in the boating newspaper, customs patrol looking for boats on that path. While you could try telling them to go #$%@ themselves while waiving a Canadian passport, that would just lead to more harrassment - after my experience crossing the border at Niagara Falls a few months ago, customs agents in both countries can have some major issues with ego control.

So what would I do if I were Canadian? Go to Cuba. Ask them not to stamp your passport, I have been told they will understand and be helpful (any idea Morgan?....) Go directly from there to the Bahamas, and if you are intercepted by US patrols on the way, tell them you are a Canadian operating in international waters and outside their jurisdiction, which would be well within your rights under international law. (As a navy man, that is standard procedure with the Iranians, but it helps to have a couple of Gatling guns pointed at them.) Sailing into a US port on your return from the Bahamas, you would be off the stretches of patrolled water. If you have a Cuban stamp in a Canadian passport, it would not be a problem, but in a US registered boat, I would go into a port north of Florida where the authorities would be less conditioned on the Cuba issue, and hope for the best. Again, I doubt you would have broken any law, but that would not stop certain people, being paid our tax dollars, from making your life hard.

The above advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972

Going to Cuba

You'd have no problems with a Canadian registered boat and Canadian crew, as long as the Canadians didn't live in the United States and, as residents of this country, were subject to US laws.

The US registered boat would be a little dicier. Such a vessel would require an export permit. They come from the United States Department of Commerce, Bureau of Security and Industry in Washington.

The deal is this: You cannot spend money in Cuba. When I was last there (2004) I sailed my E-27 down. USD were allowed to be spent in Cuba by the Cubans. Now, USD have to be converted to a tourist currency called, I believe, cevitos. The Cuban government takes a percentage of the worth of the dollars for making the conversion. There is probably still a market for USD, but it would be black market and you could get hosed.

Bringing Cuban goods--cigars, rum, art--into a US port would involve US Customs. My guess is that they would confiscate the stuff, because it isn't allowed into the United States.

Maybe the political values will change on both sides of the Straits of Florida if there is some new blood. Hope so. The 50th year of the revolution will come next January. It has been a long time.

If you have specific questions and want personal contact, call me at 941-722-9022.

Morgan Stinemetz

Morgan Stinemetz said:

Maybe the political values will change on both sides of the Straits of Florida if there is some new blood. Hope so. The 50th year of the revolution will come next January. It has been a long time.

Morgan Stinemetz

Click to expand...

Ours or theirs?

Rhetorical question, it would no doubt have to be both. The flip side is that when Cuba is opened up, it will be destroyed by tourism very quickly.

More on Cuba

New blood was a poor choice of words. Ironical, though.

I don't think that Cuba will be destroyed by tourism. It hasn't been destroyed by 50 years of communism. The people are gutsy. On the other hand, they are also adept at hustling tourists out of money. Part of the allure now is that it is forbidden territory. On the other hand a box of cigars that cost $35 in 1999 cost $135 in 2004. Same cigar. They come from government stores, some of them, and are guaranteed to be the real thing. That's necessary because there are so many counterfeits on the street.

Morgan

Thanks for the helpful information - Morgan, just to be clear (and I am not in fact about to take this trip in the immediate future) - a Canadian reg boat with a Canadian crew could happily depart from a US port to Cuba and return to the same port without undue harrassment?

On the tourism issue, Cuba has obviously had a hugely successful tourism industry for decades, catering to Canadians and Europeans mostly, who are very pleased with what they find because they keep going back for more. I dont see why American tourists will change that. Unplanned development stimulated by a massive influx of foreign capital could create a problem, though.

Roger, Kingston, ON

Roger,
Hi. There are some "issues" here that a bit murky, so let's see if I can explain them more clearly. If the Canadian citizens are, in fact, residing in the United States then they are looked at with the same careful eye that United States citizens are given. The catch word here, as I understand it, is that the Canadians are subject to US laws as US residents. So it isn't totally "free."
If Canadian citizens are Canadian residents in a Canadian boat, then I see no problem. However, bringing back Cuban goods--cigars, rum and so on--for dispensation to US citizens would be looked at, I believe, as a breaking of US laws. There may be a requirement that such goods be placed in bonded storage while the boat is berthed in the United States. Goods would be returned to the boat when the boat clears.
A Canadian boat leaving for Cuba from a United States port would have to register with the Coast Guard Marine Intelligence unit in Miami. It's a simple procedure that can be done by fax. I have the dope on that, so I can help you with that if you need a little hand holding: phone and fax numbers and what to include, etc.
Cuba, the last time I was there in 2004, was a little more run down and I think more expensive. Unless you mingle in strictly Cuban bars, then you are going to pay premium prices. And for those prices you don't always get premium goods. Say, for example, you go to La Foridita Lounge, downtown, where Hemingway used to hang out. The drinks are good. The service is excellent. The strolling musicians are fine. But it's pricey. Down the block is an alfresco bar/restaurant where the drinks are just as good and about half the price. Across the street from the alfresco bar is a place called, when I was there, Monserrat. Killer music. Could have stayed there all day.
The first night in port, my buddy and I went out to a bar in Hemingway Marina. The food was okay, but the mojito I had had sprigs of mint and the mint had been partially eaten by worms. After that I drank Cristal beer when I was out. It took the risk factor away. Cristal (chris-TALL) is bullet proof.
If you can speak Spanish, the Cubans appreciate that. I dusted off my high school Spanish and charged ahead, and I got along just fine. But I speak to Hispanics with no problem here in Florida, too, so I have some practice. It's amazing what stays with you.
Interestingly, as we were leaving Key West to come home to the Tampa Bay area we got rolled by the wake of an 82-foot Coast Guard cutter, Monhegan, in Key West Harbor. One of the Cuban bottles of rum I had on board got smashed, so I filed a claim against the Coast Guard for $10. The USCG was dragged, kicking and screaming, to account for that mistake for two years. They finally settled for $10. I still have the check. I never cashed it. Why would I?
I also made about $600 selling stories about the incident to magazines. I knew when I was onto a good thing.
Incidentally, because all my paperwork was in order, we breezed through a Customs inspection upon return to Key West in very short order. The officials--Customs and Dept. of Agriculture--were pleasant and thorough.
Standing by.....
Morgan

Thanks

Thanks again Morgan, now I just have to get into a position where I can actually make that trip!
Cheers, Roger, Kingston, ON
(getting ready for launch)

IIRC, I read that if you are a boat, "travelling through US waters, en route to Cuba" you are subject to some nastiness by the Coasties. I can't remember what they could do to you, but it wasn't good!

My experience in dealing with this since 1994 is that foreign flagged boats are left alone. Foreign nationals not subject to US laws are free to do as they please. Sometimes they get stopped in the Straits of Florida, I would imagine, but I think their sovereign status is inviolate.
I have been across the Straits of Florida to Cuba and back six times and have never even SEEN a Coast Guard vessel.
Morgan Stinemetz

I feel that I have to relate my experience about sailing while I was in Cuba on holidays. We choose a Melia resort because they showed 6 Hobie cats and 6 dinghys on the beach. Turns out we couldn't take the cats out ourselves regardless of experience. The Melia manager said that the Cuban government will not let guests take the cats out for fear that we would pick up a Cuban somewhere and take them to Florida!

By the way, good rum is cheaper in the US.

Seems that it's possible that dumb Cuban regulations and vampire retailers trying to hose touristas for the maximum amount of money are killing what used to be a pretty cool place to go. Rum was $3 a bottle when I was there last, 2004. The better rum was about $6.
Morgan Stinemetz