Meat Storage

[gareth harris]

Although I could add a full freezer to my galley since it needs to be completely rebuilt, the cost, the weight, and the space are making me want another option.

I would like to be able to eat proper meat stored for more than just the few days a fridge would give.

Are the enclosed cold plates discussed in the other thread an option, or is that risking a poisoning?

Are there other methods anyone has used successfully? One cruising book I read talked about seasoning and vacuum packing, but I am wary of the unknown when offshore.

Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972

[paul culver]

You could try what used to be done in ships:

Heavily coat your cuts of fresh meat (usually roasts, hams, or slabs of bacon) with course salt making sure not to overlook any serious 'crevasses'. Place a coating of salt on the bottom of a suitable stainless steel or plastic container. Pack the meat in tightly making sure of a good coating of salt between layers and sides of container. Place container in a cool place and allow to stand for 2 1/2 - 3 weeks. You will note liquids being gradually drawn from the meat. Remove meat and rinse in clean water and dry with towel. Hang to dry at about room temp, 2- 3 weeks.

I have heard that they used to drag the meat in the ocean before serving to make it edible.

Bon Apetit!

Paul

[Emerald]

the way you refer to the liquids, it sounds like you've done this, yes?

[paul culver]

No I haven't tried it -- it is a cut and paste from a Google search. I heard about salt beef when my wife and I took a ride on the tall ship "Lynx" and they described ship food back in the day. I'd prefer Spam and Dinty Moore.

--Paul

[Emerald]

well, it was worth a shot - would be neat to do for the halibut as long as didn't puke for a week afterwards :devil:


btw, I don't leave shore without the cans of corn beef hash on board

[Sid]

Well when we were in the Sea of Cortez, we learned from some German cruisers that if you take a glass jar,wide mouth,and large enough to hold your meat, trim all the fat off and cut to portion size. Use any type of cooking oil (we use canola or olive). Put some oil in the jar then lower the meat into it taking care to not make bubbles, make sure you keep the oil level above the meat, do not over fill, no bubbles on the meat, place the jar in the fridge with the lid on loose so some air can escape. We were in the sea for two years tested this. We were able to keep fillet for up to 6 weeks. Just take what you need out ,dry off the oil, throw it on the BBQ. Don't forget to put the lid back on,and put it back into the fridge. IT WORKS

Sid and Manuela
In and On "Paradise"
36c #51
http://boatbumms.blogspot.com/

[exoduse35]

I have had good results with pressure canning. It is not perfect, but fair if you use larger jars you can even do roasts. i prefer canning uncooked meats-the flavor is better and makes heating easier without making shoe leather. Ball is the canning gods, pick up a copy of their blue book. it has a section on meat. it is not quite fresh but sure beats that canned stuff from costco, and any kind of meat can be done (pork, duck, venison...) and needs no refrigeration at all. we made wood storage racks (patterned after the cardboard containers the jars come in) so the glass isn't much of an issue and we also do fruits and veggies. they are better and of a bigger variety than the grocery shelve.

[Jerry]

with many years of commerical canning experience, I see in the above posts practices which are down right dangerous.

First, if you home can be very sure you follow the instructions to the letter whether from Ball or any other reliable source. Also very important is sanitation; keep the bacti load as low as possible.

As an aside to sanitation - the soucre of the meat should be reliable. If you've ever been on a kill floor you'll know what I mean. This is critical when buying meat offshore.

As for Sid's oil technique - this technique produces the ideal growth contitions for the bacteria which produces the botulism toxin. This bacteria grows only in the absence of oxygen. So unless the meat/oil is not stored continually at about 45F or lower problems may develop. Just because no problems have occured (that you know of), the conditions are set in place to cause big problems. Here again your trust in the meat source is critical. How clean is it?

On an extended sail I would only use frozen or refrigerated meats. When these run out, switch to canned meats/fish, smoked fish (I do love to smoke salmon) or dryed meats.

Anyway that's my 2 cents.

[exoduse35]

in my earlier post i did not mean to infer that canning was easy or could be done without do care, the first third of any ball book i refereed to is in fact devoted to the issues that you raise so i felt confident that the suggestion was safe to pass along as a general topic to be investigated, not as a step by step how to. i may have (but Doubt it ) mistakenly assumed that the original poster was aware that meat storage was wrought with potential problems. i thought that was the whole reason behind the quarry. quality of product and sanitation are extremely important and i find that my controlling the process from start to finish gives me confidence that both issues are addressed to my satisfaction. and that i can find and safely store foods from any port that i can find fresh product and a clean environment to work in. yes freezing is still the gold standard (if you freeze uncontaminated product) but the question was specifically what alternatives to freezing exist that can provide good results. while your points are valid the tone seems a bit harsh. good sailing to all...it should be given that safety and thorough understanding before rushing in is paramount on all aspects to accomplish that....but isn't that why this board exists... for those seeking to find suggestions to research and see if the answerer of the masses will apply to us, this as with all things on this board should be a starting point not the final word ,while input from others is helpfully,as captains we each make the final call aboard our ships, that is what keeps them safe.

[Jerry]

sounding a bit harsh. I usually use one word where two will do.

Yes home canning can be safe but many cases of food poisoning do occur because some people don't completely understand the process and for example maybe modify the process to fit their equipment or unknowingly use low acid tomatoes. The list of possible errors goes on.

Change one parameter and the thermal process is void. For example, the process for canned asparagus spears is different depending whether the heads are up or down in the retort! Wouldn't think that would matter but it does.

As I recall the biggest case ever of botulism in the US ocurred here in Peoria about 25 years ago at a restaurant. For their patty melt they stored an open container of grilled onions mixed with butter at the back of a stove to keep it warm. Perfect growing conditions. As I recall twenty+ people were made ill. Kept the FDA busy a long time. I recall one death. Some folks took years to fully recover. Of course the restaurant went out of business.

I just wanted to alert everyone about the perils of storing foods because bacteria are always present and when conditions are favorable they will grow.

[exoduse35]

jerry, everything you have said is true. I must echo your caution that it is risky business and no one should take any un-necessary chances with canning. it is at least as dangerous as sailing into a Gail! if you don't have the right equipment and know how to use it back words and forward it is suicide to try!!!!! that said it can be done safely for any one willing to learn and become proficient with the technology. The fundamentals are easy enough to understand but the biology and chemistry are unforgiving and errors are not found until it is far too late in most cases. That said there are enough benefits to it that it is worth investigating. I would never try to accomplish the work from on-board the boat as sterilization is imperative and un reliable from the boat, however I have borrowed the kitchens of more than one hotel with a industrial dishwasher in foreign ports to run off a few quarts of a local fruit for the small price of leaving a couple behind. and I do not mess with anything that I can get commercially, you won't catch me doing tuna (or chicken since it has came to be available) but I have done a Bit of sea bass and shark that I caught and knew was fresh. You can't always say that about what you find in a foreign market though. The same can be said of things like duck and deer, i prefer fresh but will can if I saw them alive and have the facilities and need for use in the short term. It is not a perfect solution but it did win the west and worked well for great grandma till the supermarket was invented. It should also be mentioned that even comercialy canned foods are dangerious to keep on a boat, rotate the stock frequently and at the first sign of spoilage throw it out! canning of any type only slows the spoilage, that is why there is a "use date" on the can, and the salt air and water and less than ideal storage of a boat do nothig to extend that date! (not to mention that the guy that asigned it had no idea what we were going to put the can though before we opened it) canning is worth looking at, if it fits...folow the directions to the letter!!!!... if not at least you learned a little about something new (or old as the case may be)

[paul culver]

So Gareth, is all this helpful?

Maybe meat on the hoof is the way to go. A couple of chicken coops lashed to the deck. A friend of mine mentioned bringing a rabbit along for one of our week long trips then slaughtering it for the last night's dinner, but my sister-in-law said the poor thing wouldn't make it past the first day so we never tried it. Chickens might be a different thing though.

--Paul

[exoduse35]

yeah life on the high seas is tough for all of us who believe that the four basic food groups are: dead cow, dead fish, dead pig, and dead bird!

[Loren Beach]

What? it's not Salt, Fat, Sugar, and Alcohol ? !

(sorry, couldn't resist...)

:rolleyes:

Loren

[exoduse35]

Aren't those just the proper items to help get the flavor right? love my salt but can eat a drumstick with out it. however the reverse is not so true. And as for alcohol it's a beverage! (important fact for those trying to watch the calories they EAT):cheers:

[sleather]

yeah life on the high seas is tough for all of us who believe that the four basic food groups are: dead cow, dead fish, dead pig, and dead bird!

Dear Sir, We regret to inform you that do to inconsistencies in your "behavioural health" your application for membership in PETA has been "DENIED". Please feel free to "re-apply" after adhering to a strictly vegetarian diet for a minimum of 1 calender year.:nerd:

Good Luck, Meatless & Miserable :egrin:

[Emerald]

I prefer to look at it as 8 food groups, and yes, there actually IS a dark 'n stormy within my reach :devil:

[exoduse35]

Dear Sir, We regret to inform you that do to inconsistencies in your "behavioural health" your application for membership in PETA has been "DENIED". Please feel free to "re-apply" after adhering to a strictly vegetarian diet for a minimum of 1 calender year.:nerd:

Good Luck, Meatless & Miserable :egrin:
My life truely sucks! (evedenced by yet another rejection letter from a group I desperately wanted to join?:crying:) Oh well, at least those VIKINGS haven't said I can't play with them anymore:egrin:

[gareth harris]

Maybe meat on the hoof is the way to go.

Great idea about the chicken coops. Perhaps a shotgun could be used to provide a steady supply of Gull meat.

But I may revisit the freezer option, it would help with the rum punch too.

Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972

[exposuretime]

After reading the threads about meat storage, I was wondering if anyone read Tristian Jone's version of Bergoo that he used on his many sailing adventures? If I remember correctly, he added Rum to his bucket of Bergoo that he kept lashed to the mast. I do not remember how long he claimed the mixture would last.

[paul culver]

According to "Wayward Sailor" Tristan did not really do half of the stuff he claimed he did, so who knows. You can google up recipes for bergoo/burgoo but I haven't found any yet with booze added. I remember his dog loved the stuff.

Regardless, he was a great read.

--Paul

[saltbox]

I used to do a lot of back country paddling, a week or 2 on the allagash river each summer. The challenge was similar and we always tried new ways of storing food with NO refrigeration or ice. One of my favorite things to do was to make beef jerky with very lean flank steak before we left. This was a great snack and as the days progressed, it always kept well (ziplock bag with papertowels between layers of beef jerky). Toward the end of the trips, I would 'rehydrate' pieces of jerky in the morning with water in a nalgene jar. As the canoe moved, the jerky jar rolled back and forth and by dinner time, it could be cooked up with spices for a mexican meal, beef stew or anything else that you wanted.
Hey, it worked for me...

[exoduse35]

have a food dehydrator that i picked up at a local hardware store. it has about 5 18" dia. shelves and what looks like a hair dryer down the center, and makes the best jerky. i have never tried to re-hydrate any (now i must try, thanks). it will keep for several months in a vacuum sealed container. it cannot rot without oxygen and moisture, so once it is dry as long as it stays that way it is safe. If it can in fact be re-hydrated like fruits & veggies, i guess i will have to try doing larger thicker pieces and see what the limit is. just what i need another series of experiments with food, my wife will be SOOOOOOOOOOO pleased! thanks, does anyone know a good divorce attorney, just in case?

[Steve Swann]

My wife does a lot of home canning. In fact, probably about 2' of growth on each of our kids can be attributed to her canning efforts. Our absolute favorite is her fresh canned peaches. You have no idea how good these are!

A couple more things to remember about home canning. When you open a new jar of anything, when you pry the lid upwards, there should be a sucking sound as the seal breaks (very important, this seal-thingie). If there isn't, be VERY cautious about eating the contents. Check the seal and the underside of the lid for yucky things (my undergraduate studies were in Molecular, Cellular, and Developmental Biology, can you tell?). Trust your nose and sniff carefully. Not always can you smell a bad jar of something, but sometimes you can. If in doubt, throw it out.

Home canned spaghetti sauce is the bomb. Lots of tomato acid so it is conducive to safe-to-eat, and generally is a fantastic canned option that you can really load up with meat(s). We put in hamburger, spicy sausage, and even pork ribs for the meat components. None of these get tough via the canning process. If there is any space left after standing on the jar to squish in all the meats I crave, we put in a splash of tomato sauce. Makes sloppy Joes, spaghetti sauce, a base for some kinds of horse duvers (think about it), and some creative toppings for other dishes.

I am still looking for commercially canned bacon. K-Mart used to sell it many years ago and it was really good! Anybody found a new source yet?

Steve Swann
Boise ID

[u079721]

The essentials of life are salt, sugar, caffeine, and fat - and maybe alcohol. None of these require a fridge.

[Kevin Johnston]

The Washington State University Creamery makes a number of canned cheeses (my favorite is either Coug Gold or Viking). I have heard that it has been used by a number of sailors on long excursions. It keeps well since it is in a sealed can. I don't believe that it has to be refridgerated and does well in the heat and humidity since it is in an air tight can and has a heavy body.
KJ

[Galley_Slave]

Back to Gareth's original question, we recently installed a Waeco freezer in our boat. It's fabulous, keeps meat solidly frozen, and there's even enough room for ice cream and it cools beer in just a couple minutes.:cheers:

We installed it in one of the V berth compartments.

[exoduse35]

Believe it or not I recently tried a couple of the new generation Mountain House freeze dried beef meals and was absolutely amazed at the taste and texture. In my backpacker life I have tasted a bunch of nasty freeze dried food over the last 30 years, But this stuff was good enough to be resturant food. You may want to give it a try

[exoduse35]

i just found this site http://www.internet-grocer.net/realmeat.htm I haven't tried the product but they make it sound edible. And the quote from the sales pitch says it all.....

We've got 'em! The genuine articles. Real canned meats that will store 5-7 years or longer. (The manufacturer guarantees them for 5 years.) They're in stock and ready to ship or pick up. (A delicious addition to your galley for that blue water sailing adventure!)