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The Port Of Los Angeles To Hold Public Meeting To *review Proposed Recreational Vesse

Jeff Asbury

Principal Partner
The Port of Los Angeles Public Meeting To Review Proposed Tariff

I was wondering if other LA Harbor Ericson owners were aware of this? I did not know about it until this past week.

THE PORT OF LOS ANGELES TO HOLD PUBLIC MEETING TO *REVIEW PROPOSED RECREATIONAL VESSEL REQUIREMENTS PROPOSED IN TARIFF SECTION 21.

http://www.portoflosangeles.org/News/news_111607recv.htm

Down load the new requirements here: http://www.portoflosangeles.org/DOC/Tariff_Section_21.pdf

There is a public meeting tonight 11/27/07 at 425 S. Palos Verdes St. San Pedro, CA from 6:00 to 7:30 pm
 
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Jeff Asbury

Principal Partner
Proposed Tariff & Permit Meeting

Hi Mark,

You are not alone in not being aware of this meeting. The only notice we had at my Marina appeared as flyers taped to the gang way gates about a week ago, with very little information. This has been a mystery to all of us that had seen these flyers.

Here's my brief report:

Well I went to the meeting early last night, and I was glad I did. The meeting started more than a half hour late because more people showed up at the Harbor Department than they anticipated. 80 or more people had to be turned away because they only had room for I guess what was about 200. I guess that's why the meeting started late because they had turn away all those people that had taken time out of their busy lives to see what this was all about.

The meeting was lead by CAPTAIN JOHN M. HOLMES Deputy Executive Director Harbor Operations. Mr Holmes first started the meeting by explaining about the delay in starting the meeting and explained that another meeting would be held at a later date so that all that were turned away would have the opportunity to voice their opinions about this new Tariff and Permit requirements proposed.

There was very tight security and every boat owner / marina operator that attended had to empty their pockets and go through a metal detector and then issued a temporary badge as well as be escorted by staff to the meeting on the second floor. Then we were all handed the seven page proposed Tariff to read through. Then Mr Holmes went to the podium and said he was willing to answer any questions. The first question asked was, "Who are you?". Mr Holmes had neglected to introduce himself first. Then the questions really started flying as to be expected, mostly oppositions to the proposed tariff and permit requirements. Issues such as increased liability insurance to cover not only the boat owners but harbor department officers and agents that may have to board or inspect our boats. We were assured that the permits would not cost us any thing but there is a fairly long list of requirements that need to be met before a permit would be issued.

I think the over all consensus of the boat owners was that we already have to meet these requirements with the marinas we are berthed at, and that it should be the marina's responsibility to enforce these rules. This was not a happy group!

Apparently the Harbor Department's whole motivation to do this started when they had to dispose of some 120 derelict boats at the Departments expense. This Tariff and Permit is not something we as boat owners we're allowed to vote on. What I understand is that it is still only a proposal and has to be approved by the Harbor Commission and then go to LA City Council. I noticed that the local NBC affiliate Channel 4 news was present as well so this may be getting a lot more attention publicly.

Personally I am very opposed to this. Those of us berthed in LA Harbor already have had to put up with large slip fee increases, increased registration fees as well as pay property taxes on our boats. If this goes into effect there is the possibility of having to pay for this permit as well as the added expense of regular surveys and increase liability insurance in the future. I also feel that this is just another step closer to living in a 'Big Brother" controlled society.
:mad:


Down load the new proposed requirements here: http://www.portoflosangeles.org/DOC/...Section_21.pdf
 

Jeff Asbury

Principal Partner
Proposed Marina Rules Worry Boaters

Port of L.A.'s Proposed Marina Rules Worry Boaters

Here is a up date that was published in this Months "The Log" newspaper

http://www.thelog.com/news/newsview.asp?c=230532

WILMINGTON - The Wilmington Boat Owners Association (WBOA) held a special meeting Nov. 16 to discuss a proposed tariff published by the Port of Los Angeles, which would add new requirements for vessels kept at marinas within the port. The tariff has many boaters wondering if the port has a hidden agenda - one that might eventually phase pleasureboats out of the port, WBOA members reported.
The port had announced a Nov. 27 public meeting to review recreational vessel requirements in proposed Tariff Section 21. After reading through the proposed changes, the association called a special meeting to gather consensus about the proposal.
"My biggest concern is that the port is going to have control over what boats can be in slips," said Donna Ethington, president of WBOA. "What we see this doing is giving the port control over how these marinas operate -- and these are private marinas, so we should have the ability to say who is here and who isn't."
The proposed Tariff Section 21 requirements are part of the port's Responsible Marina Program which aims to enhance safety, security and the environment for the 3,700 recreational boaters and 17 marinas at the port, as stated in a Port of Los Angeles press release.
The proposed requirements for boaters at marinas include: an annual recreational vessel berthing permit; maintaining insurance on recreational vessels; meeting criteria for seaworthiness; providing written authorization for liveaboard status and meeting specific environmental standards.
One concern was the port's requirement of meeting criteria for "seaworthiness."
Ethington, who has been receiving e-mails and taking calls from boaters who read the proposed tariff, has been serving as a spokeswoman for the boaters' group.
"We don't understand why all the boats have to run," she said. "Some people come once a year, for others it's a hobby, they come and buff it out and take it out once a year. You can have a car all your life and not drive it."
The proposal read that permittees shall, upon request, demonstrate or allow inspection of their vessel for seaworthiness by marina managers, the executive director or a designee. To be deemed seaworthy, the vessel must be able to operate under its own power, have an operable electrical system, be weatherproof, not be in a state of deterioration, be watertight and be navigable.
If a vessel is determined to be unseaworthy, a notice to repair or remove the vessel will be posted. The permitee will receive a copy of the notice, and will have 30 days to repair or remove the vessel before it is removed or impounded at the permitee's expense.
Many WBOA members, and other local boaters, attended the port's tariff discussion meeting Nov. 27. Capt. John Holmes, deputy executive director for the port, led the tariff discussion, where boaters asked questions about the plan and stated their concerns.
The port's criteria for "seaworthiness" was a major topic for discussion, and many boaters asked for a clearer definition.
"It is written in the tariff," Capt. Holmes said. "We can get into a lengthy discussion about it."
But many still had questions such as: Does the boat have to be sinking, leaking fuel or missing a door to be deemed unseaworthy? Does a vessel have to be able to go out in the open ocean or just the harbor?
Capt. Holmes accepted the comments and agreed to look into the definition of seaworthiness. He also sought to clear up the main focus of the tariff.
"The sole purpose of this tariff is to give us, the port, a vehicle for when those marina operators and boat owners don't fulfill their responsibilities," Capt. Holmes explained. "At present time, the harbor police can't enforce a lease between a marina operator and a boat owner. This tariff allows the harbor police to act if someone does not fulfill their obligation."
He added: "I have to have the ability to come in and say 'your boat is sinking at the docks, and there is something that has to be done.'"
Other boaters questioned why the port was speaking with them rather than the 17 marina leaseholders.
"If I go through the marina operator, it's a whole different process: It's lengthy, I will have to go through real estate and leases. This tariff is an avenue that I can go to directly," Capt. Holmes explained.
"I can hold them (marina operators) accountable by going through a long, lengthy process to try and take their lease away; or I can use a tool that I have, such as the tariff, and use it judiciously -- and go (directly) to an individual and say 'your boat is not in good condition,'" Capt. Holmes said.
Many boaters asked why the tariff echoed existing marina lease provisions, calling the tariff another level of bureaucracy.
"If all this stuff is in the lease, why do they need to put it in a tariff? Are they going to go back and amend the leases?" Ethington wondered.
"If the port has the power to not permit 4,500 boats in this harbor, then maybe that is a way to get rid of all the marinas," she added. "Get rid of one boat at a time, and then don't allow marina owners to rent their slip; and what marina can stay open when half their slips are empty?"
For those who were unable to attend the meeting, another one will be scheduled. The tariff must be approved by both the Los Angeles City Council and the Board of Harbor Commissioners. No date has been set for those hearings.*
 

james henry

Junior Member
Do Tell...

Thanks Mark for bringing all this up.
I just took over a slip here in Wilmington Sept '07. I'm here every weekend working on the boat, and I never saw any notice whatsoever. I really like this area (very relaxed and secure) and I'd hate to have to move. After all
if it winds up costing as much as say Alamitos Bay. I might as well rent there. It would be closer. I'll be following this thread. Ya know, there are people working on their boats (and it may take a couple of years ) where their boats could be considered to be "unseaworthy".

James Henry
1968 Mk1 E23, "ADAGIO"
L.A.Harbor.
 

Carlos

Carlos
Port of Los Angeles proposed tariffs

The Port of Los Angeles is having a second public hearing on the proposed "Rules and Regulations for Vessels Berthed in Marinas" tariff this coming Tuesday, February 12th from 6:00 - 7:30 PM in the Liberty Hill Plaza Multi-Purpose Room (100 W. 5th Street, San Pedro.

I would advise everyone to read section 21 of Tariff No. 4, and then go to the hearing. Attached is a copy in PDF. I for one would very much like to see a cleaner harbor. However, I am always suspicious of bureaucrats. While their intentions are well meaning, there are always those in power that will take it to the extreme. Section 21 is peppered with statements open to possible abuse, such as "Vehicles, ...leaking...oil...are subject to citation or removal." What vehicles don’t leak some oil? Or “Swimming is not permitted in any of the Harbor District marinas." Does this include donning a wet suit and cleaning your hull? While sane and reasonable people would think not, others may interpret differently. There is no way to cover all bases and make everyone happy. Anyway, that’s just my opinion. I just see it as another layer of bureaucratic authority making my life that much harder.
 

Attachments

  • Tariff_Section_21.pdf
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Jeff Asbury

Principal Partner
Thanks for keeping us posted!

Thanks for keeping us posted about this Carlos. I can't make it tonight, time to see the tax man. I saw nothing in the way of flyers or any notification about this meeting. Please give us a report if you attend.

Jeff:esad:
 

Carlos

Carlos
Port of LA Tariff hearing Feb 12, 2008

The hearing started on time and the commitee wasted no time getting things going. Not near as many boaters showed this time though. John Holmes, Deputy Executive Director fielded the majority of questions.

As far as tariff 4 goes, everything from page 5 on was thrown out. Essentially everything that was not directly related to boats. Nearly all other items 3,4,6,7,8 were rewritten.

The main concern from the majority of boat owners, who spoke, is that it appears the port authority is singling out live aboards. Some had the same concerns that I have about vague verbage in the tariff. My other concern is "why does the port feel a need to enforce the same regulations already imposed by the marinas?" Mr. Holmes responded (and I'm paraphasing here); The port can respond faster, in removing boats deemed a hazard, then the marinas can. I was not aware of this. Maybe there is a good reason why the marinas must go through a long and lengthy process.
 

Carlos

Carlos
No idea Jeff. Something might of been said in the last few minutes of the meeting. I left a few minutes early.
 

Sean Engle

Your Friendly Administrator
Administrator
Founder
Jeff -

Just as an aside - you should load stuff like that into the calandar - so it shows up on the front of the site the day of the event...

//sse
 
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