Grey water discharge. Should we be concerned?

I know the Feds are considering legislation to control ALL discharge from ALL boats with a permiting/licensing system. So are all boats now going to be required to have another holding tank for grey water? I know the enviro-nazis would love that. Retrofitting an old boat like our Ericsons would be a pain, expensive and the tanks would be too small to be of much use. So what then? You cannot use the galley sink and brush your teeth in the head? Seems ridiculous. Look at the runoff from highways, parking lots, etc. that dumps millions of gallons of oil, coolant, etc. contaminated water into the sea. How about the pesticides that run off from farms and worse yet, lawns and golf courses. Lets check all those residential septic systems that leak and run off, not to mention the municipal systems that overflow and dump to the ocean when it rains hard. I'm from the Caribbean and I know all about the dead reefs. Its from the sewage and fertilizer runoff. Its from the locals using dynamite to go fishing. Is the grey water from a boat a boat ideal? Ultimately, no. However the inordinate focus/blame that is placed on recreational boaters is absurd. It'll be the Winter Olympics in Hades before I am overly concerned about my grey water from washing plates and taking a shower. Nodding our collective heads and thinking that these types of ordinances are doing any good in light of the mountain of pollution that is unregulated is extremely short sighted. The authorities would rather pick on boaters because we are easy targets and considered "rich" so we can afford to do what it takes. RT

Rob

I don't disagree with your position at all. I doubt that we'd ever be faced with a retrofit on our boats.

I've seen the damage in our rivers, off the Italian coast and other places, primarily from pesticide runoff. For too long we have used the oceans as a dumping ground and I guess we need to curb some of our behaviors.

In California the "authorities" are considering allowing grey water to be discharged into gardens, yet they acknowledge some products would need to be banned to keep them out of the watershed. The ban on two strokes is close at hand-all two stroke engines. No longer are we to use soap with phosphates.

In Marina Del Rey the harbor does not get flushed with the tides so it's very important that all boaters watch what we dump into the water. If I were moored in the open I might not be so sensitive.

Good thread

John

John,
To be fair, I only use biodegradable soaps on my person and the boat. I try to stay with all natural products, not that I am a "tree hugger" type by any stretch, just that it makes sense and the local coop has the stuff in bulk, cheap. I understand the concerns in a harbor with no or poor water exchange as well. Lakes and ponds are even more obvious. It just seems to me, especially here in RI with 44,000 boaters that lots of things get blamed on us while major municipalities have serious issues with sewage treatment that goes unchecked. Sailboats in particular should get special treatment since we use WIND to power our boats not a bazillion gallons of fuel like the stinkpots.

The entire RI waters are a NDZ. You cannot pump the head overboard, you must have a holding tank, it must be inspected, pay for a sticker, etc. If you have an overboard discharge then it must be locked or the handle removed to pass inspection. Some places there are not enough pumpouts and you can guess the result. The Lectra San system is illegal unless it dumps into a holding tank. This is something I don't understand. Lectra San systems treat waste with heat and current so that what is left is totally inert. IE, fishfood. So why is there an issue with their use? Granted in harbors that don't flush well, then I see the point but here in RI there really isn't that problem.

The two stroke issue is another thing entirely. I find it hard to comprehend that this equipment was completely legal for sale and most of it not cheap by a longshot and now I hear talk of banning them? What if I just spent my hard earned cash on a new two cycle just a few years back? Now I have to purchase a new 4cycle just because the powers that be think its a good idea? I plan on using my two cycles until they don't run anymore. Then I will get a new engine.

What people sometimes fail to realize is that there is a consumption penalty when you make anything. Energy and resources are used in the production of new 4cycle engines, and pollution is created in the process of manufacturing, shipping, advertising, etc. of the new product. Not to mention the disposal of the old engine. I am not suggesting that this "total pollution" of new production is equal to the old two cycle but it has to account for something. I would like to see the costs of replacing a perfectly good engine because it has fallen from favor taken right back to the mining of the Bauxite to make the darned thing. Fine, stop all new production and let the current units expire as time goes on. I admit to owning and occasionally running a British Seagull, which has to be the dirtiest engine of all time. Very cool though... FWIW, Redline makes an ashless, biodegradable two cycle oil.

Okay, I'm off topic a bit. RT

Rob

I hope HR 2550 does pass so that pleasure boats are exempt.

I too am not a tree hugger, but the banning of new 2 cycles benefits our air quality as well as the water shed. Lake Tahoe banned them outright many years ago, two cycle lawnmowers and blowers. The bi state commission really tries hard to protect the waters of the lake. Runoff is very closely monitored.

Certainly a microcosm of the waters at large.

I think no one probably takes better care of their playground than sailors, I wish stinkpotters could be reigned in.

John

This sounds like when they were banning 2 cycle snowmobiles from Yellowstone. Obviously they had never seen the plumes of crap from the buses in the summer... and towing out the 4 cycles that died in the middle of the park with 2 cycles (that actually ran) was not terribly effecient or enviro-friendly.
I'd like to see the local farmers get tickets before they ticket me... or all those industrial monsters up in Baltimore.
Chris

Banning new, I have no issue with. Tahoe I understand. Closed system. I just lean towards education, not outright restriction. The people who are going grossly violate will do so, law or not.

There is a special place in hell for those motoryacht driving morons that have no idea about boating traffic rules just going about creating huge wakes. I'd like to torpedo them all.

RT

I've got to add that I have a few idiot neighbors who drive those penis boats and love to race around me.

On more than one occasion I wish I had a deck gun or RPG.

Don't get me going on the jet skis and lakes and seven in the morning thread!

John

Some good points being made here. I'm all for raising awareness, educating the public, and everyone doing his part to keep our waterways clean. In my lifetime I have seen Lake Tahoe lose clairty, and the SF Bay become less polluted by industrial waste, (although microrginisms in the the Bay have been greatly affected by runoff of household chemicals, oil on roadways, etc.). If our lawmakers wanted to clean up the environment, they'd improve regulation of consumer goods that are harmful to the environment, and encourage and mandate improved fuel efficiency standards. For example, what will hurt the Bay more, a few thousand boaters discharging dish water, or streams dumping a cocktail of engineered household chemicals and roadway runoff into the Bay every winter?

I know it's easier to make smaller groups of people who generally care about their environment (like boaters) change their behavior, than it is large number of people who don't think about it all that much. But we need to be realistic about the cause of environmenal problems.

Getting back to grey water.......

Getting back to the grey water issue that started this thread.......In Ontario a few years ago there was a big issue with the cottagers complaining about the high levels of coliform bacteria in their bays - high enough that it usually wasn't safe to swim in the water. In some misguided effort they almost pushed through a ban on grey water discharge by recreational boaters. That is, until it was shown that grey water does NOT contain bacteria, and the bacteria in the bays comes from the drop toilets of the cottagers themselves, and the bird droppings. But my impression is that it was a close thing for awhile. Kind of scary.