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New to SF Bay... Questions

ref_123

Member III
Hi all,

we are relatively new to the SF Bay sailing - bought the boat and got a baby right away, so technically we are just starting serious sailing now.

My question to fellow Ericson owners is - how much heel is "normal" for the 32-3 on the windward beating? We love our Ericson, but most of our sailing experience goes back to Catalina 36 and 320 in Santa Barbara, and 25 kts of wind is considered a gale there :). In 15 knots Catalina heels but not significantly. So, when in 15 knots (or at least my wind instrument says so, also I see white caps all around) the boat heels about 20 degrees, am I to say to my family that it is normal for Ericson or to imply that our sails are old and baggy and thus we need a budget for new sails? Or am I to think that the wind instrument is busted and it blows more than 15 knots?

Thanks,
Stan
 

ChrisS

Member III
Hi Stan--

My 32-2 heels really early, then firms up a bit. But it's still a tender boat. Most say that new sails/sail trim help to control the boat, and I think reefing early is the best way to avoid getting overpowered. I am usually double reefed with my jib rolled in to 100% when the wind is consistently over 20 kts.

Another thing I have learned about Bay sailing is to avoid big wind days during an ebb of 3+ knots. That's when it gets uncomfotable. So I try to be out in the morning when it's 15 kts. or less, especially if I want to sail the slot. Going out in 30 knot gusts is the best way to get your wife and kids freaked out.

I always try to have a destination for family trips. South Beach harbor is great, as is Ayala Cove. I also hear that Pier 39 just finished renovating their marina, so that could be a good place to go as well.
 

ref_123

Member III
Kids and heel

Chris,

since your kids are plder - what heel they are comfortable with? Ours is fine while we motor or motorsail in small winds, but as soon as I put out a 100% jib (an old and possibly baggy one) and a double-reefed main (that does look baggy one), even in 15 knots we heel about 20 degrees...

Thanks,
Stan
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Sailing in Paradise...

Hi all,

we are relatively new to the SF Bay sailing - bought the boat and got a baby right away, so technically we are just starting serious sailing now.

My question to fellow Ericson owners is - how much heel is "normal" for the 32-3 on the windward beating? We love our Ericson, but most of our sailing experience goes back to Catalina 36 and 320 in Santa Barbara, and 25 kts of wind is considered a gale there :). In 15 knots Catalina heels but not significantly. So, when in 15 knots (or at least my wind instrument says so, also I see white caps all around) the boat heels about 20 degrees, am I to say to my family that it is normal for Ericson or to imply that our sails are old and baggy and thus we need a budget for new sails? Or am I to think that the wind instrument is busted and it blows more than 15 knots?

Thanks,
Stan

Yup. 15 kts is 'bout where you see lots of whitecaps. As to heeling... your Catalinas were flatter-bottomed boats with a lower sail area-to-displacement ratio. You have moved into a "higher horsepower" boat these days...
:)
Shape of the hulll also has lots to do with heeling. Your Ericson has a farily deep bilge and is going to initially heel more than your prior boats, but then get a lot stiffer at the designed angle of heel. You may find that the Ericson hardens up remarkedly at about 15 degrees going to weather.
Sails, on any make of boat, get stretched and and the shape moves aft in them after years of sailing in windy conditions. Sans an enhansed budget, I would tend to want a flatter-cut dacron main for the Bay area - and in those big wind and wave parts of the bay with the attendant shock loads, I would try to find the $ for sails with some hi-tek materials... :rolleyes:

I live in a light-air region, but when I have visited a fellow Olson owner (and EY site participant!) and sailed with him on the Bay, he never got the rail under with his composite lapper and main. My Oh My, was that a fun sail! :egrin:

So, your intuition about hull shape and sail shape is... right on, as we once said in the sixties...
And, if you are sailing in the "slot" I bet the wind is often over 15.

Have Fun, and as Bud sez, Sail Fast!

Loren in PDX

ps: be sure to read "Latitude 38" every month. One of the best SF sailing *and* general sailing mags I have ever seen, at any price...
 
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ref_123

Member III
Thanks

Thanks Chris and Loren. Will try to go out tomorrow with a new jib - will see how much difference does it make. Baby is a limiting factor for the heel angle - othrwise, I would not care much. For now though 10 degrees is a max we can do with her...

Regards,
Stan
 

MarkA

Please Contact Admin.
I hear ya about the baby.

But for comparison, lemme say that my 34T seems happiest at 20-25 degrees -- and she'll do that in 15-20 knots. And that's with the sails flattened and the draft as far forward as can be.

I know all the reasons for putting her back up on her lines, but the knot log and GPS repeatedly tell me she's better on her ear. The teenage girl crew doesn't love it that much, but I can trim her so she tracks straight with my hand off the tiller, and I've grown to love it.

A reef will return her to 10-15 degrees heel, but she'll lose a couple knots. And yeah, I can trim the reefed main very well.

Go figure.



Thanks Chris and Loren. Will try to go out tomorrow with a new jib - will see how much difference does it make. Baby is a limiting factor for the heel angle - othrwise, I would not care much. For now though 10 degrees is a max we can do with her...

Regards,
Stan
 

ChrisS

Member III
Stan--

Like Mark notes, the kids are a limiting factor in big winds. When I take the wife and kids out, we usually go short distances--Sausalito to South Beach Harbor being about the longest they can go, and again, never during a big ebb. They love the boat, and I want to keep it that way. Does your wife like to sail? I'm thinking of getting my wife into a basic keelboating course to help her build her skills.

In a way I am eager for the winds to mellow out a bit, which they should do here soon. I sailed Friday, with an overniighted at Ayala Cove, and then sailed Saturday, which was the windiest sail I've done this season. I was out with two friends of mine, the wife and kids at home. If I had been planning to sail with them Saturday, I wouldn't have been on the water very long past noon as it was blowing 30 kts. consistently.

I also sailed today, and it was great, pretty much sub 20 kts, but I see that it's blowing 30 right now at Point Blunt (I was back to the dock by three pm). Again, reducing sail area is the name of the game, but if it's ebbing, it's a rough ride any way you cut it.

Hope to see you out there.

--Chris
 

ref_123

Member III
Wife is a better sailor than I am :)

Thanks Mark.

Chris,

my wife actually got me into sailing about 9 years ago, and for that I am profoundly grateful to her. I grew up in the Central Asia mountains and deserts so I never saw a really large body of water until my late teen years :).

Regarding the heel issue... Looks like that's just the way it is with Ericsons, as a trade-off for speed. I guess we will have to continue sailing with much reduced sail area in high winds with the baby on board until she is really sure-footed. She is fine with netting and PFD but totally hates tether :(. Wish we had a third reef in the main - with a second reef and a 100% jib boat still heels quite a bit.

Regards,
Stanly
 

CaptDan

Member III
Thanks Mark.

Chris,

- with a second reef and a 100% jib boat still heels quite a bit.

Regards,
Stanly

Having sailed on SF Bay for over 14 years on two different boats, I almost never used a jib bigger than 90% during the blustery summer months.

A double reefed main and a flat cut jib kept weather helm in check, and with judicious use of the traveler and vang, heel wasn't particularly excessive in wind speeds of 18-25kts apparent. When the wind died, or was blanketed by hills, a twist of the engine key was quicker than shaking out the reef.:)

You might consider getting a used, but serviceable 70-90% headsail and giving it a whirl. There are plenty of used sails on the market, and with a moderate expenditure, you might find a better alternative to your 100% working jib - that for daysail cruising - I think too large on an E32 for much of the SF Bay summer season.

As others have said, these boats reach an optimum angle of heel, then stiffen up and track admirably, assuming good sail trim not over canvassed.
The heeling angle increases the boat's waterline length, which enhances speed and tractability - a characteristic adding considerably to the enjoyment of sailing, IMO.

That said, I'm intimately aware of how heeling affects others; my wife has developed H.P. (heeling phobia) and prefers broad reaches in a Force 3 breeze. I've often rolled our 140% genoa down to an 80% in an 8 knot breeze when she's aboard, just to keep peace in the family.:rolleyes: Unfortunately, that results in the boat's developing excessive lee helm, loss of steerage and the need to fire up me olde iron gennie.;)

I feel for ya, Stanly; you're trying to do the right thing keeping your child safe and comfortable. If all else fails, maybe sailing earlier in the summer day and heading back to the berth before things pipe up is the way to go for awhile.

Capt Dan G>E35II "Kunu"
 

Charlie B.

Member II
I think that CaptDan hit the sail choice answer right on the mark. In the summer months a #3 (90-100% LP) will get you around more comfortably with an occasional reef when the ebb tide chop starts to form. If you are shorthanded and are not beating to windward, sailing with just the main works well.

Also careful selection of the time of day and location on the Bay can make your daysail more pleasant. The wind generally picks up just before noon and will blow until about 6 PM. Avoid beating upwind in the slot, City Front or at the Gate during those times. The lee areas behind Angel Island, Tiburon Peninsula, Raccoon Straits and the Marin shore near China Camp are usually much milder throughout the day.

One last tip, September and into October is generally the best time of the year to sail.

Charlie
 

Blue Chip

Member III
We sail out of Grand Marina on the 32-200 and usually go the counter-clockwise route that is advised which gets you around Angel Island about the time the wind starts to kick up. and helps you come home down the city front.
BLUE CHIP is all lead back to gthe cockpit, and by adjusting the traveler on the cabin top, etc, we SELDOM heel over 15...and the most I can recall is 20.
We call it Rocking Chair Sailing.
Hey, we're old, and so is the boat!!!
 
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