e23 skank bottom or, bottom cleaning & maint [Archive]

rbonilla

10-29-2006, 06:30 PM

greetings....after picking up a e23 thats been sitting in the salt water for a number of years...i want to get her cleaned up, painted, and set for colorado lake sailing up around boulder, co...question is...take a l@@k at the photos below and give me advise of how to proceed to scrape, strip, clean up and paint this hull....any tips and "things you learned" from the past sure would be appreciated !!!

she is a fixed keel and l@@s pretty rough, in spots..... thanx for any tips !!!

.....:cool:

Dave Hussey

10-29-2006, 08:03 PM

Wow, that looks like a lot of work is going to be required. Well, first of all, spread out some tarps on the ground under the boat, and then weight it down so the wind wont lift it. Then, get a real good respirator (I use a 3M with replaceable filters) and some eye and hand protection. Next you might be able to rent an orbital sander and vacuum system (some yards have them for rent...I'm thinking about investing in one for my own arsenal of tools) and 40 grit discs and go to town. You will be amazed how fast it goes with the right tools.
Good luck, and dont forget to take breaks! (I did this and repaired a hole in the keel in my E27 this July, so it's all fresh in my memory, and I feel your pain :esad: :boohoo:

Rob Hessenius

10-29-2006, 10:47 PM

Rbonilla- There is no easy way of doing this. The best thing you have going for you is that your boat is only 23'. I truly beleive the best and cleanest way to go about this is with 1 1/2" sharp, rigid scraper. It will go faster than you will think. My guess would be less than 6 hours. I just recieved some info on using a leaf spring for scraping from Guy Stevens. I made it to his specs. Good for flat areas. I could forward his drawings if need be. Good luck and have fun. Rob Hessenius

rwthomas1

10-30-2006, 12:04 AM

Has the bottom been pressure washed already? A good high pressure wash will remove more crap than you would guess. Know anyone that owns a large sandblaster? I helped a buddy media blast a 48ft Hatteras and it worked very well. Another idea is to have a commercial outfit do it for you. Doing it yourself is not a big deal if you have the correct tools. You will need at least a 6" professional grade DA sander with a good vacuum setup. I like 40 grit for this kind of work. I would recommend a Fein or Metabo sander with a Fein vacuum. Looks like a cast iron keel. A large electric grinder will be needed to grind it all down. The right tools are never cheap but they will make the job much faster and bearable. RT

ted_reshetiloff

10-30-2006, 01:56 PM

Have it blasted. 23 feet cant cost that much. Was going to be around 1000 for my 38. I did it myself with scrapers, sanders, etc. Waaay to much work. Granted on a 23 you should be able to get it to gel/barrier coat scraping in a day use sharp 1" scrapers and grind off the points on the ends so you cant dig. Easiest by far and money well spent IMHO is getting it blasted. Should not be too bad if you are on a trailer and can easily move the boat.

Chris Glasspool

10-30-2006, 02:56 PM

I just purchased a E25 Swing Keel, joined this group, and of course am looking at the same sort of job, only I'm inland and don't have the yard option. I too haven't ever done this before and crawled all over the internet looking at what others have done. Some say that simple sand blasting creates a deeper pit and fizzure problem, so they use a soft aggregate blasting. It also appears that sustained heavy grit sanding or scraping can in some cases cause gel coat problems that lead to the need of a new barrier coat, so I'm taking a more conservative and longer course of moving to lighter paper faster. I purchased a Festool six inch sander and vacuum, along with extra soft pads for almost dustless sanding, but will be wearing a respirator. I still haven't completely figured out the whole scheme of moving the boat off the trailer yet, but baasically will be lifting the whole trailer, supporting the boat, lowering and pulling the trailer out.

Loren Beach

10-30-2006, 03:23 PM

Until you actually get down to gel coat (or other original surface) use the 40 grit. Those Fein vacuum's are a wonderful tool, in general. I bought the smallest one (at "only" $150.) and just love dustless sanding. We now also use it for finish sanding and can go directly to varnishing without waiting a day for the dust to settle.

"Every big project should justify one additional new quality tool," as a wood working friend always tells me!
:)

Loren

dcoyle

10-30-2006, 05:12 PM

The easiest way I found to get down to gel coat is with soy strip. It is sold by West Marine and is easy on your body and the environment too. Its pricey, about $95 gallon. I removed 24 years off bottom paint in about 16 hours using 2.5 gallons on an E33.

rbonilla

10-31-2006, 01:16 PM

wow, excellent info everyone... A BIG THANX !!.....

i did have it pressure washed and scraped once pulled out of san pedro last summer...i will get her situated and get hold of a resporator and orbital sander...how will i know when to stop sanding ore scraping? i herd someone say, "stop once you get to the gel coat", that will be the white, smooth fiber glass material, right?....what paint and striping would be good for lake sailing and ocassional salt w/a rince?........thanx again !!!:D

Frank Langer

10-31-2006, 01:34 PM

Not all fibreglass is white. Best to proceed quite slowly and only take off what you need to for a smooth hull. In my opinion, it may not be necessary to get absolutely all the paint off, as long as an flaking paint is removed, what is left is very solid and adhering well, and the new paint is compatible.
I think one can do more damage than good by taking off too much.
Good luck!
Frank.

rbonilla

10-31-2006, 01:34 PM

The best thing you have going for you is that your boat is only 23'.

yea, Rob....i am glad i didn't snap up some of the bigger ericson's i have come across in the last 6 months, or so....i will start off small...:rolleyes: ..... i will drag the kids out to assist, once i get the dirty work done (scraping & sanding), and am ready for painting and "speed stripes"......aka: water line stripes.....

Sean Engle

10-31-2006, 01:41 PM

...wow, excellent info everyone... A BIG THANX !!.....

Don't forget to post the pictures from the job... :D

//sse

Chris Glasspool

10-31-2006, 01:55 PM

Frank,
This was my thought also. In my case, a cold freshwater lake; anti-fouling paint is not necessary. I plan to sand to get rid of the rough stuff, fine sand and polish. The Festool sander has three settings; stock removal, fine sand, and polish. If after a few seasons the hull is down to gel coat, then I would be interested in the Interlux teflon paint. For those that don't need to get to the bottom coat, Interlux also sells a tie coat primer that allows painting over any unknown paint but limits the top coat to only certain Interlux paints. Interlux has a compatibility charts for those that would be interested in this.

Frank Langer

10-31-2006, 03:09 PM

Chris,

I sailed my previous boat on a lake near Edmonton, Alberta, Canada--launched the boat at the end of April as soon as the ice was out, and hauled it at end of Sept. before the lake froze again. Although I used to swim in it, the lake never got warm (top temps probably in the 60 - 70 degree fahrenheit range by July, then dropping again). And even so, the hull got algae growth on it. All the boats in our club had anti-fouling paint. So just a caution, that even in a relatively northern lake, you may want to consider antifouling paint--unless you are really, really north! :D

As I took the opportunity once a week to swim under the boat to clean it (good exercize!!), I didn't apply antifouling paint, but rather used what I think you are referring to--Interlux High Performance Epoxy with Teflon, a two part epoxy paint that goes on quite thin, very hard, and can be sanded for a baby-bottom smooth racing finish. I really liked that product, but it doesn't have any anti-fouling properties.

Good luck with your project.

Frank.

NateHanson

10-31-2006, 04:59 PM

I rented a huge sandblaster and diesel air-compressor for $100 for a day. Ordered 300 pounds of walnut husks from Consolidated Stripping online.

Bringing my whole 26' hull and keel down to stark white gelcoat took about 4 hours, and I didn't hurt for a week, as I expect I might have after scraping. :)

Nate

ted_reshetiloff

10-31-2006, 05:33 PM

rbonilla

10-31-2006, 09:41 PM

Don't forget to post the pictures from the job... :D

//sse

yea, good idea...it'll be a while , but i will keep the group up to date...

NateHanson

10-31-2006, 10:26 PM

Curious how much the walnut husks cost? Guessing the sand blaster you rented had no trouble shooting them? What did the boat yard you did this at have to say? Most yards around here are pretty strict about dustless sanding, but i guess you could tent in the bottom and go to it. There are guys around here who shoot dry ice which works very well and evaporates leaving little mess. 300lbs of husks was enough to do your bottom? How much I wonder for a 38 footer?

The yard was, well, my back yard, so no complaints there. You'd want to tent the boat whereever you do it. The walnuts are a bit dusty. A respirator and hearing protection are a must.

300 pounds of husks was more than enough. I paid about $30 per 50-pound bag (including freight). I could have done the job with 200 pounds or less. You just shovel up the husks from a tarp under your boat, and dump them through a screen back into the pressure pot. The sandblaster had no problem with the media, and it didn't seem to wear out after recycling it many times. I'd say that 300-400 pounds would be enough for a 38 footer if you made decent attempts to recapture your media.

It was amazingly fast, easy work. Dirty, but fast and easy.

If you have questions, talk to the guys at Consolidated Stripping. They were really helpful with all my novice sandblasting questions.

Nate

rbonilla

11-01-2006, 01:37 PM

"Bringing my whole 26' hull and keel down to
stark white gelcoat took about 4 hours"

wow Nate, tell me a bit more about this process...:nerd:

NateHanson

11-01-2006, 03:43 PM

wow Nate, tell me a bit more about this process...:nerd:
Not much to tell, really. I found that I could rent a 300 pound capacity pressure pot sandblaster, and towable diesel air compressor (the sort you see running jackhammers) for $100 at a local Taylor rental (Sat eve pickup, Mon morn return). I looked online for Walnut Blasting media, and found the best price at Consolidated Stripping somewhere in the midwest.

Two of my friends trailered their smaller boats to my driveway at 8am one Sunday morning, and we fired-up that beast! We stripped their botttoms in about an hour each, and I did mine after lunch. The operation is simple - point the nozzle at the boat from about 12" away, perpendicular to the hull, and open the blast valve. As you move the tip at about 2" per second, a 2-3" wide strip of 30 year-old built-up nasty hard bottom paint just disappears. Keep the tip moving, because it won't go through gelcoat as fast as bottom paint (making it easy to take off paint and leave gelcoat), BUT if you point it at one spot for 30 seconds, you will start to wear into the laminate.

Every 15 minutes or so the pot would be empty, so I'd use the tarps under the boat to gather the media into a pile, and I'd shovel it back into the pressure pot, through a screen on top. Or just dump a new bag of media in the blaster.

There's not much else to it. Be prepared to clean brown stuff out of your ears for a few days afterwards. :)

rbonilla

11-01-2006, 04:02 PM

NateHanson

11-01-2006, 06:13 PM

Nate...sounds like a plan...I guess I would want to find a few other boat owners at the yard that would also want to do this some sat and all chip in...thanx for the info...once the paint was removed, what or how did you smooth out the gelcoat b4 putting on the paint or bottom coating?...:cool:

Doing it with friends is a good idea so you can split the media, since that's the biggest expense, and it's an incremental increase that you need to do an additional boat (ie, 200 pounds for one boat, 250 pounds for two boats, etc).

If you're stripping the bottom you should be barrier coating, imo. What prep you do before barrier coat depends on the condition of your hull. My hull had many pinhole voids beneath the gelcoat (presumably because the first course of chopped strand mat was not thoroughly wetted-out). So I wanted to fill these 1-2mm sized holes. I used a flexible plastic epoxy spreader to squeegee thickened epoxy into the holes, and sanded flat with a RO sander. (use an easy-sanding filler). I reinforced the layup around the outboard well and around the rudder tube, with a few layers of cloth. I blasted any rusty part of the iron keel to bare metal, and primed the iron with a rust-inhibitor. I also ground a groove around the keel stump, and faired it with 3M 5200. Then rolled on 4 coats of Interprotect 2000, replaced all through-hulls (they were removed before blasting), and topped with Micron CSC bottom paint. The bottom looks brand spanking new (in stark contrast to my aged and peeling topsides! :o Next year.)

rbonilla

11-02-2006, 01:17 PM

Chris,
I didn't apply antifouling paint, but rather used what I think you are referring to--Interlux High Performance Epoxy with Teflon, a two part epoxy paint that goes on quite thin, very hard, and can be sanded for a baby-bottom smooth racing finish. I really liked that product, but it doesn't have any anti-fouling properties. Good luck with your project. Frank.

Frank, yea...I used that "teflon coating" on the bottom of my 20 foot boston whaler..it has lasted 3 years of "light lake use" (maybe 10-15 hrs ttl per year off the trailer, in the water) just fine...the colorado state dept of fish & game has warned us of some sort of mussle (zebra mussles?) that grows in some lakes ... but by trailering my boats, they are not in the water long enough to worry about bottom growth ... so, i would guess i would not need to worry 'bout anti fouling issues, unless i decide to leave one boat in the water over the summer ... as always, thanx everyone for the tips and advice, this is the exact info i needed to move fwd w/my project ... i will post photos in a few months once i get ot going ....:egrin:

rbonilla

02-03-2007, 01:35 PM

i finally got time to pull the e23 from so cali back to boulder colorado...good trip, no "events".....now comes the hard part...once the weather warms up a bit, i need to find a boat yard in no colorado where i can park the e23, strip the bottom and start doing some work...i guess i will want to strip the bottom down to the fiberglass, re fill / finish to het a smooth result & put on a ve22 teflon coating or something like that......:cool:

rbonilla

02-03-2007, 01:38 PM

I finally got time to pull the e23 from so cali back to boulder colorado...good trip, no "events".....

Now comes the hard part...once the weather warms up a bit, i need to find a boat yard in no colorado where i can park the e23, strip the bottom and start doing some work ... I guess i will want to strip the bottom down to the fiberglass, re fill / finish to get a smooth result & apply a ve22 coating or something like that ......

:cool:

rbonilla

03-09-2007, 02:33 PM

anyone use the west marine stripper kit that is some sort of a applied liquid/chemical/stripper...with sheets of paper/or something like special materila that interacts w/the chemical...allowing the user to peal off the paper and any bottom paint. it was recomended to me as something to consider...preventing all the sanding and mess assoc w/stripping via a sander...

:confused:

thanx......

rbonilla

08-16-2007, 02:27 PM

well..i am making some progress on the bottom now...old fashion power tools and sweat...seems to be the combination....pics to post tomorow or the next day...gettin the rub rail insert fig. out this week......thanx everyone for the tips !! hey Seth, did you ever work at the ericson facility in irvine, ca??

richard
colorado

:nerd:

rbonilla

08-18-2007, 09:35 PM

here are some shots...she is coming along...a little here, a little there...

3032

3033

3034

:egrin:

sleather

08-19-2007, 03:53 PM

I'm facing the same scenario on my boat, well maybe next year
has turned into 6 yrs. of crap!!! I've had good luck in the past w/
the scrapper routine, but I think I'll farm it out to my local GUY,
barrier coat time, maybe she'll last another 30 years(I won't)
I've been really happy w/ Interlux Micron CSC, 2 coat job can last 2 years in "fresh". If you can wet sand it, w/ one those SpongeBob sanding blocks before you pull it the fall (some weird little wormy type things, here) it's ready for next year.
By the by, you'll be sailin the fresh now, after years of fighting
a brown scum line on the waterline stripe, above the bottom paint
I gave up and am now painting to the top of the waterline stripe.
You may want to take that into consideration if you're redoing the
stripe.
My boat floats @ 1 1/4"+- up on the stripe, the infamous
"FRESH WATER" effect. Many old posts about that. GOOD LUCK!

p.s. The one HUGE advantage of a fixed keel is apparent in the photos, the ability to paint your bottom on the trailer, I 've actually dropped my roller sets one side @ a time (scary stuff) w/ the boat tied off to any immovable object to avoid lift charges.

rbonilla

08-19-2007, 04:07 PM

Hey there Steve...thanx for the info...so, the boats sit lower in the freshwater vs. salt? I never thought of that...sorta like floating better @ the salton sea "effect", ea?

I will be doint the inerlux paint...i am not sure what series yet...and, i will
be doing a fresh waterline stripe...I plan to "float test" the hull @ the lake and actually mark off the water line w/chalk or a marker.....I wanted to check for leaks, run the outboard ... and give mom & the kids a ride ... I guess we might as well crack a fresh, cold beer on the hull ... as we will be using the e23 for the 1st time ..

:cheers:

sleather

08-19-2007, 04:43 PM

When you redo the "waterline" make shure you have all your "STUFF" on board. I'm assuming you'll be @ a marina, that's where the "brown scum" comes from(maybe not as bad w/ 2-strokes cleaning up their act), I'd add about 1" to what you mark for a line, to allow for rockin & rollin.

rbonilla

10-03-2007, 02:39 PM

some update pics...progress coming along...slowly but surely...keel patched and let set up for 30 days or so...we will be applying paint in the next few weeks or so...then a float test w/waterline marking...thanx to all for tips and comments !!

so, i finally got the e23 in a safe, dry, xlt shop to do some work on the "skank" bottom...we chipped and sanded down much of the flaking old bottom paint...
3176

the keel to hull joint was flaking real bad, so we patched it up and let it harden for a few weeks...we will be smoothing down and patching up the keel in the next few weeks...then, bottom paint goes on...float test, and waterline stripe...
3174

we are working on the rub rail as well, i did order a replacement from the place in cagnoa park by recomendation from on of our ericson board members..thanx for the tip !!..i am doing a black instead of white, it will stand out a bit better and it was cheaper $$...no color pigiment i would guess...
3175