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A-Sail Sheet Lead on an E38

Peregrine

Member II
I have an asymetrical spinnaker and I was wondering if any other E38 owners had any recommendations regarding the sheet lead.

My track does not extend to the stern and I have no turning block located aft of the track. My solution to date hase been to put a block as far aft on the track as I can and lead the sheet through that to the winch. I don't think I am getting the best sail shape on a reach with this configuration and have considered putting a block on a strop attached to the stern cleat.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Tony
Peregrine Spirit
1994 E38 Hull #16
 

Chris Miller

Sustaining Member
spring cleat...

If you have a spring cleat (not sure if they put those on 380's), that might work also. Our spin blocks are just put on "u" bolt throughs in between the winch and the stern along the toe rail after the track runs out. Should be a pretty easy install- if I were re-doing it, I'd put in a pad eye that folds down when the block isn't there. Moving stuff way back might entail the need for twings when you run deep...

Chris
 

Peregrine

Member II
Thanks, Chris. I noticed the pic of your sail on the Regatta thread. Very nice sail, indeed. Do you know the dimensions? I would like to compare it with mine.

Also, thanks for the advice. I think I will try to experiment with the strop solution to the aft cleat. I hate drill holes in the boat. :esad: Especially if I am not sure where I would want to place the U-bolt.

Tony
 

Chris Miller

Sustaining Member
measurements...

Ours is a pretty narrow cut (as discussed in several threads about cruising kites) but it keeps us moving in light air and doesn't wipe us out in big breeze.

Luff is 52.5 ft, foot 24 ft, max girth 24.5 ft, leech 48.75. It's a UK tri-radial, with their "stasher" sock.
Chris

a thought on using cleats... you might try a yale loop to connect it- just a thought.
 

Peregrine

Member II
Peregrine Spirit A-sail

Chris,

Attached are two pic of my aso and a shot of the symetrical set without the pole using an ATN tacker. I think my aso is a larger cut... broader in the shoulders than yours. I have sailed it with the tacker, but on a reach it really puts a strong lateral strain on the forestay so I have started sailing it with just the tackline attached to the anchor roller.

I enjoyed reading your blog. Although I am now in San Diego, I cruised the Chesapeake for many years, sailing out of Pax River, Norfolk, and D.C. on several boats. I really miss the Chesapeake cruising, but love the sailing in SoCal.

Tony
 

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Seth

Sustaining Partner
Good idea

A strop on the aft cleat to attach the block is a good idea. This would be your reaching lead. For deeper angles, the aft end of the outboard track might be a bit better. The ideal thing is to run a line with block on the end of it from a car at the aft end of the track, and using the strop on the cleat method run the sheet through the aft block AND the block on the end of the other line. This way, you have kind of barber-hauler, so that as you bear away to deeper angles,you can pull down on the sheet lead- effectively moving the lead forward..

Good luck!

S
 
Seth,
I think that the Ericson list should insure you as a treasure. Your input on so many different items is so valuable on so many diiferent planes. Good on you, mate.
Morgan Stinemetz
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
In getting Escape Plan ready for some fall racing I was exploring this very subject. We are going to fly an Assym from a pole attached to the mast. We are going to use sheets and guys and a tack line (a snubber I think its called in this use) I have genoa cars on my outboard tracks that will go forward to support the guys, which will lead back to the cockpit primarys. The sheets are going on a block that will sit at the aftmost setting on the outboard toerail track. Its just forward of the primary winch and will lead to cabin top winches for trimming. The dodger and bimini and TON of other crap will be off the boat. I need to run a topping lift for the pole but am thinking that with the guys led pretty forward and a tack line I wont need to install a downhaul for the pole. I'm running out of room in my deck organizers already. The way I envision gybes to work will be:

1. Pole forward tack line snugged up.
2. Pole tripped from guy kite gybed on tack line only
3. Pole moved to new side and new guy clipped in.
3. New guy trimmed, tack line eased.


Thoughts here?
 

Seth

Sustaining Partner
You got it

That is a sound method, and commonly used. As long as you have the tack line tensioned at all times, you should not need another pole downhaul (foreguy). BUT, if not, having the afterguy blocks at the location you describe (which is the correct location) is NOT enough to eliminate the foreguy without the tackline being tensioned to help keep the pole down.

The tackline can serve as the foreguy, but it must be controlled at all times.

The sheet location at the aft end of the outboard track is OK for running, but likely too far forward for reaching with a full sized kite-there will be too much leech tension, preventing air from exiting the leech, which will cause excessive heeling and not be fast. For reaching, the lead should be as close to the stern as possible-most kite sheet blocks are near the transom for this reason.

Enjoy!!
S
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
Thanks Seth. I am pretty sure that any reaching we do will not be with the kite but just in case I am going to set up a set of blocks that can go on the stern cleats and get the sheet up to the cabintop winches for trimming. Thanks again
 

Seth

Sustaining Partner
Why not?

In most conditions, with an Asail you can reach as high as 50-60 app (depending on whether the sail is an AP, runner, or reaching shape), and unless it is really windy, you can sail on a beam reach or slightly closer-even with a running spinnaker, and if it is under 10 knots TWS, the kite will be much faster than a genoa at angles of 75-80 app and deeper. I would say most of the time you have a kite up you will be reaching more than running.

At angles of about 120 app and closer, you will need to run the lead aft of the rear end of the toe rail track. I would plan on leaving the sheets in the aft-most position, and the guys at or near the widest part of the boat (as you had planned). If you find you are running deep and feel the leech is too open, you can "choke" the sheet down with that barber haul set up I described, or if you are lazy like me, just trim a bit on the lazy guy-which will effectively make the lead more forward..

Enjoy!!

s
 
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Chris Miller

Sustaining Member
As long as we're discussing...

I've been running my sheets from turning blocks behind my jib winches to my jib winches (and I'm not sure it would change using coach-top winches) and I've been getting some pretty serious chafe/rub on the outside of the coaming behind the winch. Any thoughts? If I use a longer shackle on the block maybe?
Chris
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
Thats exactly why I was reluctant to try pay eyes back there. I plan to sheet to the cabin top. It looks like if the pay eyes were actually on the top of the coaming pretty far aft you could eliminate teh chafe, but I like to sit there sometimes and just spent a lot of time getting the wood looking nice...
 

Seth

Sustaining Partner
chafe

You could try taller shackles or strops, and use a piece of bungee cord tied off on the lifeline to hold the block upright.

Another helpful thing is to add some S.S. chafe bars-which screw int the deck..the are smooth and low profile, and protect the gel coat.


S
 
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