wurzner
Member III
John,
that seems a little high, but you don't mention what coverage you have as well as what else is with Zurich. they are an excellent company though. The issue with older boats is the underwriters have a heck of a time coming up with a good financial model. A lot of companies will not insure a boat over 20 years old for that reason. I py around 1400 a year for my 1986 E38 with a insured value of 80K in the Seattle area (geographic location is a factor). I will say that while my insurance was the most expensive quoted, they covered a new engine replacement to the tune of about 17000 less my deductable which was around 3500. The insurance companies are concerned about losing a rig, worn electrical, etc.
I would repost with more details.
regards
shaun
that seems a little high, but you don't mention what coverage you have as well as what else is with Zurich. they are an excellent company though. The issue with older boats is the underwriters have a heck of a time coming up with a good financial model. A lot of companies will not insure a boat over 20 years old for that reason. I py around 1400 a year for my 1986 E38 with a insured value of 80K in the Seattle area (geographic location is a factor). I will say that while my insurance was the most expensive quoted, they covered a new engine replacement to the tune of about 17000 less my deductable which was around 3500. The insurance companies are concerned about losing a rig, worn electrical, etc.
I would repost with more details.
regards
shaun
I paid $960.00 for my E38 from Boat US. They were the cheapest for me. I had problems even getting insurance because of moving up from a Catalina 22 to the E38 with no shorter boat in between. Is the price high? Yes. Is it fair? No. Insurance companies are legislated extortionists. Unfortunately we have to deal with it. Your price seems "appropriate" given other quotes I have heard. RT
u079721
Contributing Partner
Guess I had a bargan and didn't know it. The last year (2004) that I paid insurance on my 1989 E-38 Rag Doll (agreed value of $90,000) it was just over $600 for Great Lakes coverage with (I think) Global Marine Insurance through my local independent agent.
Which is of course is off topic, since the boat wasn't yet old enough to be a real concern to the insurers.
Which is of course is off topic, since the boat wasn't yet old enough to be a real concern to the insurers.
This thread covers something that directly impacts all of us...
I was thinking (I know, dangerous activity) about the main determiners of a rate and thought of a few: age, boat size, and equipment list and condition, and some sort of market value. I think that "replacement cost" is important, but am not sure how it figures in.
Our boat is in above-average condition and is relatively "valuable" in the used market. I asked for (and got) a fixed insurance value of $65K when I insured it with BoatUS. I was moving over from another company whose rates had jumped up to over $700.
Per our 2006 premium notice, our actual prem. is $595, and this "reflects the 10% credit for being claim free." This policy also has a $650. deductible.
When we insured our '88 model, they said nothing about age, per se, being a factor. It will be interesting to see if there is any change in their attitude in a couple of years when the boat is 20.
From an owner's standpoint, the whole market is heavily weighted with boats built in the heyday of boatbuilding, the 70's and early-mid 80's, and will always be that way. I would expect that insurance will continue to be offered to this huge group of customers, but that owners may need to provide positive proof of maint. upgrades as their boats age.
Interesting topic.
Best,
Loren
1988 Olson 34
I was thinking (I know, dangerous activity) about the main determiners of a rate and thought of a few: age, boat size, and equipment list and condition, and some sort of market value. I think that "replacement cost" is important, but am not sure how it figures in.
Our boat is in above-average condition and is relatively "valuable" in the used market. I asked for (and got) a fixed insurance value of $65K when I insured it with BoatUS. I was moving over from another company whose rates had jumped up to over $700.
Per our 2006 premium notice, our actual prem. is $595, and this "reflects the 10% credit for being claim free." This policy also has a $650. deductible.
When we insured our '88 model, they said nothing about age, per se, being a factor. It will be interesting to see if there is any change in their attitude in a couple of years when the boat is 20.
From an owner's standpoint, the whole market is heavily weighted with boats built in the heyday of boatbuilding, the 70's and early-mid 80's, and will always be that way. I would expect that insurance will continue to be offered to this huge group of customers, but that owners may need to provide positive proof of maint. upgrades as their boats age.
Interesting topic.
Best,
Loren
1988 Olson 34
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windjunkee
Member III
We pay $505.00/yr with Progressive Insurance in CA, replacement value $20,000.00.
Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32-2 (1970) Hull #134
Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32-2 (1970) Hull #134
Good going, Bryan!
Being smaller cruiser with only a 6 gallon fuel tank, your boat poses a smaller liability or threat to others.
One consideration is that you may, at some point, need to provide proof of insurance to cover "pollution abatement and wreck removal," and this is normally part of a regular hull policy.
In the Pacific NW, such coverage is becoming a standard requirement in the wake of several years of disasterous marina fires that involved sinkings and fuel spills.
Our YC is mostly sailboats with small diesels, but we have gone to the same requirement to protect ourselves from undue liability.
What with almost all marinas having waiting lists, this might also possibly be seen as a way to discourage the storage of out-of-commision boats, too.
At our little YC, it was interesting to see that, after years of their swearing that they "had insurance coverage" how many members seemed to, ah, struggle to provide a simple copy of their declarations page for their policy (which coincidently had a start date of the month our YC started enforcing this requirement).
<big sigh>
Loren in PDX
Being smaller cruiser with only a 6 gallon fuel tank, your boat poses a smaller liability or threat to others.
One consideration is that you may, at some point, need to provide proof of insurance to cover "pollution abatement and wreck removal," and this is normally part of a regular hull policy.
In the Pacific NW, such coverage is becoming a standard requirement in the wake of several years of disasterous marina fires that involved sinkings and fuel spills.
Our YC is mostly sailboats with small diesels, but we have gone to the same requirement to protect ourselves from undue liability.
What with almost all marinas having waiting lists, this might also possibly be seen as a way to discourage the storage of out-of-commision boats, too.
At our little YC, it was interesting to see that, after years of their swearing that they "had insurance coverage" how many members seemed to, ah, struggle to provide a simple copy of their declarations page for their policy (which coincidently had a start date of the month our YC started enforcing this requirement).
<big sigh>
Loren in PDX
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1973 E-25, sorry about the typo. State Farm sent a copy of the policy to me and to the marina. There is also a portion of it about pollution, but I do not remember the details. Also it is linked to my Homeowner's policy, so I got a nice discount. I'm located on the Chesapeake Bay. Also, I'm not supposed to go into the Atlantic Ocean past Virginia Beach without changing the policy.
EGregerson
Member III
hmmm...
that's what i did when i noticed in my Boat US policy re: a 20% deductible if the damage occurs during a 'named' storm. Otherwise 2%.
that's what i did when i noticed in my Boat US policy re: a 20% deductible if the damage occurs during a 'named' storm. Otherwise 2%.
All good posts.
Insurance is one of those areas you just pay and don't really think of it.
Tonight I brought some provisions down to my boat, leaving for Catalina in the morning, and noticed a mast sticking up from the water two slips away.
Last night one of my neighbors sloop sunk. It is leaking fuel and the word is he let his insurance lapse. The boat was old and not worth much.
Wonder what the fines will be and how soon the feds will attach his house!!!
Insurance, if you have assets, is a good thing.
John
Insurance is one of those areas you just pay and don't really think of it.
Tonight I brought some provisions down to my boat, leaving for Catalina in the morning, and noticed a mast sticking up from the water two slips away.
Last night one of my neighbors sloop sunk. It is leaking fuel and the word is he let his insurance lapse. The boat was old and not worth much.
Wonder what the fines will be and how soon the feds will attach his house!!!
Insurance, if you have assets, is a good thing.
John
therapidone
Member III
Change insurance carriers, need a survey?
I switched to Boat US after the first year (I think I went with National Marine Underwriters the first year). Earlier this year, the initial company got in touch w/ me by mail and asked me to give them a second chance. I can't even remember how much of a difference there was in the annual premium, but when I started to consider switching back (they must have been cheaper or I would never have even given it a second thought), they wanted me to have ANOTHER survey 'cuz the last one (when we bought Spirit) was more than 18 months old. The cost of the survey was going to make the period to earn back the savings from the newer premium something like 5 years...and that's only if the newer company continued to have cheaper premiums than the one that I was already with--there was nothing to guarantee that outcome since I switched to Boat US BECAUSE they were cheaper the 2nd year!
Have others switched insurance carriers in the time that they've owned their boats? If so, did the carriers always insist on a survey if the last survey on the vessel was longer than 18 months prior?
Regards,
Ed
I switched to Boat US after the first year (I think I went with National Marine Underwriters the first year). Earlier this year, the initial company got in touch w/ me by mail and asked me to give them a second chance. I can't even remember how much of a difference there was in the annual premium, but when I started to consider switching back (they must have been cheaper or I would never have even given it a second thought), they wanted me to have ANOTHER survey 'cuz the last one (when we bought Spirit) was more than 18 months old. The cost of the survey was going to make the period to earn back the savings from the newer premium something like 5 years...and that's only if the newer company continued to have cheaper premiums than the one that I was already with--there was nothing to guarantee that outcome since I switched to Boat US BECAUSE they were cheaper the 2nd year!
Have others switched insurance carriers in the time that they've owned their boats? If so, did the carriers always insist on a survey if the last survey on the vessel was longer than 18 months prior?
Regards,
Ed
The BoatUS insurance person told me that they can require a random survey at any time, but that when they do they will pay for it.
Anyone else run into this?
Loren
('88 model boat)
Anyone else run into this?
Loren
('88 model boat)
Rig Survey?
My insurance company is Zurich North America. They asked for a rig survey to be done soon after I took possession of the boat. $330 (I paid)
Anyway, my premium just went from about $889 to $1,039. 150 bucks increase. I think the value is around $70K, but the policy is at the boat right now. I was thinking the increase was more like $50. Maybe I'll call the agent. They did add my old red dinghy recently. That may have something to do with it.
Geographic coverage is Puget Sound and inland waters to 51 deg. North, including the Strait of Juan de Fuca. That covers me almost to the northern tip of Vancouver Island, but not the west coast of the island past the entrance to the Straits. So if I go to Alaska, Barkley Sound or go around the island, I'll have to make a phone call.
My insurance company is Zurich North America. They asked for a rig survey to be done soon after I took possession of the boat. $330 (I paid)
Anyway, my premium just went from about $889 to $1,039. 150 bucks increase. I think the value is around $70K, but the policy is at the boat right now. I was thinking the increase was more like $50. Maybe I'll call the agent. They did add my old red dinghy recently. That may have something to do with it.
Geographic coverage is Puget Sound and inland waters to 51 deg. North, including the Strait of Juan de Fuca. That covers me almost to the northern tip of Vancouver Island, but not the west coast of the island past the entrance to the Straits. So if I go to Alaska, Barkley Sound or go around the island, I'll have to make a phone call.
Tom Metzger
Sustaining Partner
BoatUS paid for a survey of my previous boat, which I had bought virtually new, when it got to be around ten years old, 1990 +/-. They paid for it. The surveyor wouldn't give me a copy so I asked BoatUS for one. They were happy to send me one, but wanted me to pay half. I did without.
The surveyor said that the insurance company was primarily interested in verifying that there was, in fact, a boat, and not just a scam. He conducted the survey right after I took off the cover and gave me credit for having lots of equipment that he didn't see that was still home in my basement - fire extinguishers, VHF, etc.
Kim Schoedel
Member III
Ok, I happen to be an independent Insurance Agent. And being located 300 miles inland from the Pacific, I do not have a lot of experience with policies for ocean use. You "Salty's know a lot more than I. However, generally speaking I can offer the following advise.
As you can see from all these post's, there are gobs of underwriting factors that ultimately determine the rate's that we all pay. And the rates are determined between the Insurance Companies and the specific State Insurance Commisioners Office.
Geographic area, value, usage, boating experience, your driving record (auto), age, size of vessel and credit (yes, many insurance companies utilize insurance credit scores to rate your auto, home and sometimes boat policies) are used to establish the rates. I may have forgotten a few here but if I could provide advise.....
I would suggest you take a good look at your coverage for liability. Ask yourself this question. If my boat caught on fire at the marina and took out several big dollar vessels plus a large portion of the docks, WOULD I HAVE ENOUGH LIABILITY COVERAGE? Or if you happen to be distracted and accidentaly hit someone in the water and they are seriously hurt- maybe permenantly, WOULD I HAVE ENOUGH COVERAGE for this pesons injuries? Protecting your investment in your yacht is one thing, protecting your assets (liquid or future) is actually so, so important. Having enough coverage to take care of bodily injury and property damage is the key. Lot's of assets? Ask your agent about a Personal Liability Umbrella Policy.
Sorry for the long post here but, finnally a thread came up that I happen to have some knowledge of the subject. Don't know a whole bunch about sailboats.
As you can see from all these post's, there are gobs of underwriting factors that ultimately determine the rate's that we all pay. And the rates are determined between the Insurance Companies and the specific State Insurance Commisioners Office.
Geographic area, value, usage, boating experience, your driving record (auto), age, size of vessel and credit (yes, many insurance companies utilize insurance credit scores to rate your auto, home and sometimes boat policies) are used to establish the rates. I may have forgotten a few here but if I could provide advise.....
I would suggest you take a good look at your coverage for liability. Ask yourself this question. If my boat caught on fire at the marina and took out several big dollar vessels plus a large portion of the docks, WOULD I HAVE ENOUGH LIABILITY COVERAGE? Or if you happen to be distracted and accidentaly hit someone in the water and they are seriously hurt- maybe permenantly, WOULD I HAVE ENOUGH COVERAGE for this pesons injuries? Protecting your investment in your yacht is one thing, protecting your assets (liquid or future) is actually so, so important. Having enough coverage to take care of bodily injury and property damage is the key. Lot's of assets? Ask your agent about a Personal Liability Umbrella Policy.
Sorry for the long post here but, finnally a thread came up that I happen to have some knowledge of the subject. Don't know a whole bunch about sailboats.
As I earlier said I pay $715 for 30k coverage which includes my dinghy ($2500) and my 2hp outboard.
I have 300k liability and 300k oil liability.
My neighbor who's old sloop sunk in the dock did not have any insurance and it seems the dockmaster let him slide (job security???) so now the mess has to be cleaned up by the matina.
Seems that the boat has fallen apart and can't be raised. May have to be broken up and pulled out.
The scuttlebutt is that the fines to the marina will be around $75,000
Guess our rents will go up??
John
I have 300k liability and 300k oil liability.
My neighbor who's old sloop sunk in the dock did not have any insurance and it seems the dockmaster let him slide (job security???) so now the mess has to be cleaned up by the matina.
Seems that the boat has fallen apart and can't be raised. May have to be broken up and pulled out.
The scuttlebutt is that the fines to the marina will be around $75,000
Guess our rents will go up??
John