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Night Lights for Tell Tales

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
I am ordering a new genny this week and I do a lot of sailing at night. I have been thinking of a way to install leds in or around my tell tale window with a small 22 guage wire running down the luff to a watertight plug in my bow pulpit. It would need to be unplugged to furl the sail but who need the lights then. In the night racing I have done we have used flashlight holders that clamp to the grabrails or deck but its not a great set up. Before I call my sailmaker and have him thinking I'm nuts does anyone have a solution or better way to see the tales after dark?
 

CaptnNero

Accelerant
paints, powders

Have you tried glow in the dark paints or powders ? You would still have to charge it up periodically with a light. I've seen glow in the dark rope too, so maybe you could extract a few strands to make into tell tales.
 

Captron

Member III
Temporary light

If you only do this once in a while you might try using Cayalume light sticks or similar chemical lights ... they could be duct taped to the windows ... maybe in a baggie or something? I've used them to light the corners of a ski jump ramp so the skiers could line up their night show jumps. They give off a surprising amount of greenish light without being bright enough to hurt your night vision. If it works, you could probably have clear pockets sewn in to accomodate the light stick...

:egrin:
 
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therapidone

Member III
Legal?

I'm just thinking out loud here, but regardless of how small the led lights might be, they will probably be visible by other craft in the night. Would such a light configuration be legal insofar as the Coast Guard would be concerned? Might it be confusing to other craft? During the only time that I've participated in night race on another's boat, we just shined a flashlight (even taking one of those lights that straps around one's head off & using it as a flashlight) on the tell-tales & to make certain the headsail wasn't sheeted in too closely against the spreader arm from time to time.

No criticism intended here...just doing some thinking out loud.

Regards,

Ed:egrin:
 

CaptnNero

Accelerant
indirection

Good point Ed. It seems that it would be better if you're not actually projecting any light outward. If the tell tale region is lit from underneath and forward it would be more of an indirect outward effect. Does anyone feel up to diving into the Coast Guard regs ?

therapidone said:
I'm just thinking out loud here, but regardless of how small the led lights might be, they will probably be visible by other craft in the night. Would such a light configuration be legal insofar as the Coast Guard would be concerned? Might it be confusing to other craft? During the only time that I've participated in night race on another's boat, we just shined a flashlight (even taking one of those lights that straps around one's head off & using it as a flashlight) on the tell-tales & to make certain the headsail wasn't sheeted in too closely against the spreader arm from time to time.

No criticism intended here...just doing some thinking out loud.

Regards,

Ed:egrin:
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
I can't see where it could be a problem when its perfectly legal to run your cabin lights, spreader lights or deck lights all night if you want to as long as your appropriate running lights are on, I see fishing boats and commercial boats doing it all the time. I sail at least one night a week often more than that for 4-5 hours and the idea of paint or powders or cyalumes does not sound appealing. I am thinking 1 or 2 small leds sewn into the window with a 22 guage wire run along the luff terminating in a small rubber plug. I would then have a 2' pig tail with watertight plugs on either end to connect the sail to my running light circuit at the bow pulpit. Once the sail is unfurled I could plug in and when it was time to furl I unplug. Flashlights in clamps are a pain as they never stay in the right place and batteries are a drag to deal with.
 

windjunkee

Member III
On Voice of Reason, we have a halogen light affixed to the mast that shines on the headsail. We can run it at low amps and see telltales on the genoa and spin shape further forward. We have it wired to the same circuit as the deck lights and have a switch where we can have one or the other or both on.

Having done lots of night racing, we essentially run the light all night.

Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32-2 hull #134
 

CaptnNero

Accelerant
shiny tell tales

Sure, I've seen plenty of lighting on other vessels at night when we're doing Friday night cruising. I was suggesting that if you could use indirect lighting it could be preferrable. I've even seen fishing boats lit like a football stadium out there.

Your LED wiring approach seems thorough for the serious racing that you are doing. Obviously you need to be careful on the color choice to avoid confusion with the nav lights. Since the led will move with the sail there won't be any need for adjustments. Probably the biggest problem will be to remember to unplug every time before furling so the wire doesn't get stressed.

As to the battery issue, a couple of small Faraday flashlights could be used but you still have the clamping problem. Also, I wonder about the recharge time on those. I've only used mine for short periods. Since power is already available from the nav lights any battery based solution isn't necessary anyway.

ted_reshetiloff said:
I can't see where it could be a problem when its perfectly legal to run your cabin lights, spreader lights or deck lights all night if you want to as long as your appropriate running lights are on, I see fishing boats and commercial boats doing it all the time. I sail at least one night a week often more than that for 4-5 hours and the idea of paint or powders or cyalumes does not sound appealing. I am thinking 1 or 2 small leds sewn into the window with a 22 guage wire run along the luff terminating in a small rubber plug. I would then have a 2' pig tail with watertight plugs on either end to connect the sail to my running light circuit at the bow pulpit. Once the sail is unfurled I could plug in and when it was time to furl I unplug. Flashlights in clamps are a pain as they never stay in the right place and batteries are a drag to deal with.
 
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ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
Jim can you tell me more about the light on your mast you are referring to? Is it the steaming light or something else you have added? When you say low amps what are we talking here?
 

therapidone

Member III
Regardless of your decision

Greetings Ted,

Please keep us posted w/ whatever it is that you decide to do & afterwards, how well the "solution" works in terms of effectiveness, reliability, and longevity.

Good luck!

Regards,

Ed:egrin:
 

therapidone

Member III
Hey, check this out!!!

It seems that a commercial entity has addressed this problem:

http://www.nightsailing.com/nightsailing_tell_tails.htm

Also, it would seem that we're dealing w/ a term that is spelled in two different fashions :confused: :
a) tell-tale (also, the term for the strands on the shrouds or stays to give advice as to the direction of the apparent wind as opposed to how well a sail is trimmed)
b) tell-tail

I only ever thought of the first version until seeing the second today...actually, in what I discovered in the second version today was somebody referring to the individual "tails".

Regards,

Ed:egrin:
 

therapidone

Member III
Nightsailing.com

I followed their link to the "contact us" page...all pages, except the home page & the page listing their 3 packages of nightsail tell-tales (starter w/ 3 tales, essential w/ 5, and pro w/ 8) are "under construction"...the "contact us" page lists no phone numbers but 2 email address:
enquiries@nightsailing.com and
feedback@nightsailing.com.

I sent an email to the "enquiries" address expressing surprise that anybody would try to make a commercial concern in such a limited niche market w/ such a small and inexpensive (I'm guessing here) product line. I asked if they were still in existence & if they were, when they expected to have product that folks could order. I rec'd an auto-reply email thanking me for my query and advising that someone would be in touch w/ me soon...we'll see.

I came across this site by simply doing web searches under the 2 spellings for tell-tales that I mentioned earlier...maybe there is another company or marine supplier that has a product similar to this...searching under luminescent tell-tales or some variation thereof might yield something...

Regards,

Ed:egrin:
 

Renovatio

New Member
Lighting up the tell tales will provide you with a significant advantage for night racing. I was able to modify a companion way LED housing mounted on the mast for the Windex. With the lights pointing up, there is absolutely no outward light to be confused with the anchor light LEDs are pretty directional. I will need to figure a way to take a picture of the lighted Windex at night.

With regards to using LEDs on a heasail you may want to try powering them independently with a small battery similar to one's used in watches, hearing aids etc. Hopefully you will be able to get LED's that will work with much lower voltages. Also consider sewing in your lights or velcro. Maybe even making a small pocket you can put your contraption in and effectively softening the intensity of the light. The less the wires used or exposed, the better.

I have learned so much from reading the threads and posts. So, I finally broke my silence and figure I'd give my 2 cents.

We launched Renovatio for the first time only last week after working hard on her for 2 months. Now I understand why Ericson owners have a love affair with their boats.:egrin:

Good luck!

George
"Renovatio"
'76 E27
 

therapidone

Member III
Nightsailing.com LIVES!!

Granted, it was not a very rapid reply, but I did receive a response posted today around noon to the email I sent to enquiries@nightailing.com about their glow-in-the-dark tell tales...please see below:

Hi Ed
Thanks for you enquiry.
Im glad to say we are a small company and trading well.
The tell tial can be easly fixed on the sail by tape and
glow for many hours into the night.
The stock should arrive in the next ten days.
If you would like a sample tail for trial i will send you
one.
Please send me an address to send one out to you.
Best Regards
Trevor Linn

Ted, I hope this helps...again, please keep us apprised of the solution that you decide upon and how things work out w/ that solution.

Regards,

Ed:egrin:
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
Yeah I got the same email and replied to get a sample and estimate on shipping. They were pricing a pack of I think 3 sets for 7.99 (UK) Not holding my breath but we'll see.
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
Any of you guys ever get your samples? They were supposed to send some and I have not seen em. Makes me hesistant to order...
 

therapidone

Member III
Trevor is still trying

Greetings Ted et al,

Here's an email that I received today from Trevor at Nightsailing.com:

Hi Ed
Just to see what you thought of the tell tails.
I hope you have been pleased with the sample however if there is a design
problem to it your sails we can modify for you.
Hope to here from you soon.
Best regards from england
Trevor

I replied to him that none of us had received samples and wondered how reliable the company was.:unsure: However, based upon the fact that he had taken the time to follow up, my guess was that there was a problem in shipping or it is just taking much longer than anyone anticipated.:boohoo: I also thanked him for following up as it meant that he at least had some interest in his potential customers as well as their feedback.

We'll see...

Regards,

Ed:egrin:
 

therapidone

Member III
sending another sample!

Greetings Ted et al,

First, as is often done here, I have no financial interest in Nightsaling.com, nor does any member of my family or any of my friends (to the best of my knowledge) & I would not benefit in any way from any Nightsailing.com sales...having gotten that out of the way, here's Trevor's latest update from Nightsailing.com:

Hi Ed
Thanks for the update
Yes im worried about the post as both went on the same day by standard post. I will resend a small sample tommorro and can only apologise that it did not get to you.
I did find it strange that neither of you came back to me. My reason for sending samples is that i have sold most of the tales in the UK and yours are the first enquires from the States and it seems a possible trade customer.
My thought was to send the sample you can advise me if all is ok and we can
work from there,as i said in my email i tend to customise for the sailing
market all be it small i do enjoy the challange.
Please let me know as soon as you recieve the sample.
I think £7.99 retail and for trade of your forum guys 50%
discount plus P/P

Best regards
Trevor Linn

I told him that I hadn't gotten back to him because I had no idea how long it might take to send items from the UK to the US--especially if there are any delays incurred by inspecting such parcels in our current terrorist-induced climate of fear. Also, it was unseemly to complain about not having received something volunteered to be sent for free. Anyway, we'll see how things go.

Regards,

Ed:egrin:
 
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