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Genoa Siza for E-38

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
I am trying to decide what size genoa to get for my 89' e-38. I am planning on doing some racing this fall and next summer as I get the boat optimized, but mostly cruising. I have decided on laminate material of some sort over dacron. It is going to be on a furler for sure. What I am not sure about is whether I want a 150 or something smaller. The 150 I have now is very drafty and I have not been able to depower it very well. I have not tried it with the new BS adjuster though so maybe that will help. I had been thinking of a 135-140 but the North rep I spoke with recommended a 150 say it could be reefed to 135 and still be a pretty good performing sail. And thet if I expected it to blow more I could swap it out for the 100% I have now. Thinking more from the racing side this does not sound too bad. If I could carry the 150 up to say 20 apparent I would probably be in good shape for most bay racing. If I thought it was going to blow more use the 100%. From the crusing side swapping out the 150 at anchor does not sound fun... What are you guys with other 38's using, especially those of you who race?
 

e38 owner

Member III
Genoa

I have a north Gatorback Kevlar 155
It is good upto about 18 knots @ an elevation of 6000 feet.
I am very happy with the sail.
Although I have a furler this sail is cut to go to the deck and around the furler for racing.
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
When you say 18kts I am assuming you mean apparent so about 12 TWS? Can you elaborate on the cut? Can you furl the sail? Can it be reefed at all? I like the deck sweeper idea but want to be able to furl it.
 

e38 owner

Member III
The sail is a radial cut deck sweeper.
I chose to have it not designed for the furler but it could have been.
I would not use kevlar on a furlling sail at least here due to the Uv
 

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CaptnNero

Accelerant
sunbrella sock

Our Pearson 27 came with a "cruising laminate" headsail. There was a zippered sumbrella sock that we had to cover it with on an extra halyard at the end of the day. Sure it was extra work to put it on and take it off. I must say that it performed beautifully. With winds in the high teens we could put that headsail out alone and get up to 8 knots on the P27. And when the winds were light it shaped rather nicely. Ten years later now, I'd like to try one again just to compare since we have more experience.

We didn't really notice the extra work with the sock as it was our first boat. One thing that needed work was the sock was too baggy and needed to be trimmed down to the furled size for a cleaner, less flappy stow.

e38 owner said:
The sail is a radial cut deck sweeper.
I chose to have it not designed for the furler but it could have been.
I would not use kevlar on a furlling sail at least here due to the Uv
 
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wurzner

Member III
I would not use a laminate for roller furling. Laminate is hydroscopic and rolling it up wet will degrade the bond over time. I would find a nice roller furler dacron ( I purchased 2, I for $125 that is still crispy and 80 percent of life AND off an E38, and another for $600 that fits fine and was only raised 1). These are my cruising sails and while I didn't need 2, I couldn't pass up the price. They are both dacron in the 135 range. I purchased a nice 135 kevlar which was by design. In lighter winds, the 153 would be better, but that isn't the conditions I'm going for and in the absense of wanting to by a 153, a 135 a 110, and a blade, I'm went with the 135. You tend to be able to point better with this size sail and carry it longer. I would go to the 2nd reef and carry the 135 as longs as I could and then go to the blade.

If it were me, I would only pick up the 153 if I had the budget for multiple sails and certainly don't use a laminate if you are going to put it away wet. Even putting it away wet will likely get you 3~4 years of heavy use, but you can likely get 6~8 years of use if you store it off the boat and only use it for club racing. Use dacron for your leisurely stuff.

As Loren says, the value of my email is worth what you paid for it!

Shaun
 

CaptnNero

Accelerant
mystery laminate

When we bought the P27 the cruising laminate head sail had only been used once. Two years later when we sold it there wasn't any mildew or delamination yet. It had kind of a tough glossy clear coating. I haven't seen one like it since. It was off-white color with tiny black lines criss crossing both outer sides. I don't remember structural pattern or the brand but I think it was a Doyle.
 
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rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
Funny you ask this question! I have a 150 dacron crosscut cruising genoa from Doyle with a fairly high clew. I though that it was a 135 but looking at the bag tag from the PO its in fact a 150. I was thinking that the boat is overpowered in anything over 20kts TWS and the 150 explains it. The 150 will not roll up past 130 without turning into a useless bedsheet so its really not worth anything once the wind really pipes up. The 150 is absolutely perfect in 12-16kts TWS. Liveable at 18-20kts but beyond that the boat is overcanvased. I am currently looking at purchasing a 130 and will be speaking to a sailmaker this week. I was considering a 100 like you have but upon speaking to other sailors the 130 that can be rolled to 100 would be a better choice. Hope this helps, let us know what you choose. RT
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
Still trying to decide on the size. Laminates used thse days will not degrade from being put away wet, they will get some gnarly mildew growth though. One of the reasons I was looking at a 135 is because it can be reefed to 100% and still look good. It is very rare that I need a jib smaller than 100%, but there are times when something bigger than a 135 would be nice. I have a 100% now and am starting to think that if I get a 150 that is cut well I can reef it to 130%. If I think its going to be windier than the 130% would work in then I swap them out. Its a bit more work but would give me a full range of canvas. The other question is just how low of a clew can I get and still be able to furl it?
 

wurzner

Member III
Ted,

With all due respect, I can not agree with your post. Assuming the gnarly growth is in the laminate (it is), then it is reasonable to say that it is in the bond area. that being the case, unless the bonding characteristics of growth equals or surpassed that of the bonding agent, it is also reasonable to say that the laminate will be compromised. Perhaps it is less than it use to be and more importantly, you are aware of that and don't mind. What I posted was based on what my sailoft told me about both the bainbridge and challenger cloth my laminates were fabricated from. I notice you are on the east coast and with that in mind, your sails are not on the boat year around like they are in the pacific north west. With our heavy 3 season rains and putting away wet sails, it will impact the longevity of the material. The only reason I bring it up is I always took my laminates off the boat during racing season and it is a pain in the butt! They do, however, look brand new after a few season. On the otherhand, I leave my dacron sails on year around outside of race season. Perhaps we are in agreement, but I'm taking a more conservative approach due to the expense of the sail. I'm pretty sure if Seth chimes in, he would agree about the moisture issue over time. On the otherhand, he may also say that by the time it impacts the sails, they will be worn out anyway. The point being, laminates are hydroscopic and it will impact the bond over time.

shaun
 
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