Loose Footed Main and Mid Boom Sheeting

ted_reshetiloff · May 9, 2006

Was sailing a week ago and noticed what appeared to be bend in the boom in maybe 8kts of breeze going up wind (E 38-200). I never noticed it before, but i never looked. Any concerns of a loose footed main verses bolt roped version? Seems like mid boom sheeting puts some serious loads on the boom either way. Guess I will know its a problem if i snap the boom and given that I didn't last year in beating into 25-30kts I guess it will hold. Or should I think about having the bolt rope added for the foot? My new 8:1 outhaul is sweet BTW, easy to adjust under load. Havent had much chance to test the 7:1 mainsheet with new blocks but the boat splashes today with her new prop and bottom job. I am doing a lot of clock watching today...

CaptnNero · May 10, 2006

What's the new prop ?

-- neal

ted_reshetiloff · May 10, 2006

Max prop. 2 blade feathering

stbdtack · May 11, 2006

Ted,
hadn't considered the change in boom point loading with a loose footed main.
Now I will be paying attention. My new "max roach" main is supposed to be ready on friday so I might get to see this weekend.
Curious what you think of the 7:1 mainsheet. What is your traveler purchase? I'm setting up a 6:1 so hopefully I can adjust without a foot on the cabin.

Chris Miller · May 11, 2006

6:1

Hey Ben,
how are you planning on doing the 6:1? I saw on Harken's website that they have one, but it looked like it was an after thought. Would love to see it when done.
Chris

Seth · May 11, 2006

Loose footed mainsails

I am not 100% sure that a loose footed main changes the load distribution on the boom (but not taking a hard stance,either) once they are subjected to "proper" vang and sheet loading for best performance.

One problem with the boltrope main is that this bending will tend to flatten the lower part of the sail (just like mast bend does) in conditions where it is not wanted, and this is largely avoided with a loose foot.

My guess is that you should be fine with the loose foot-use the vang and sheet appropriately for the conditions(don't be shy, but do not over do it) and acccept the bend-it may become permanent. In the worst case, if you see it is getting worse, you may have have to add a doubler to the boom in that section-this is common on boats that are sailed hard. But, I would be surprised if this was necessary.

Is it possible that since you have been improving your skills and adding equipment you have been sailing harder than you had in the past? That is my guess, and that this may have ocurred in the last season with the old main...possible?

Keep us posted,
S

Loren Beach · May 11, 2006

"The strain on the main falls mainly on the....? "

This thread started with the question of boom strength with a loose foot main, and that's just the opposite of the worry I had, some years ago, with the proposed new loose-foot main for our boat...
I looked over the drawing and pondered whether the clew could take all that strain without any connection along the whole boom.
My sailmaker (it sounds so "yachty" when I say that!) told me to remember that when reefed for heavy air all the real strain goes to the reef connection at the ... end... of the boom. After all, tying in the reef points contributes tidyness but no strength.

After a couple of seconds of thought, I could see what he was getting at.
So the bronze slug at the end of the boom groove has been carrying the load now for several years without a problem.
OTOH my mainsheet connection is a lot nearer the end of the boom than it would be on an E-38.
My observations, for what little they're worth.
Loren
Olson 34 #8

ted_reshetiloff · May 11, 2006

Loving the 7:1 mainsheet. I need to decide if I like how I have run the line though. I may want to move the double to the middle connection on the boom and get the loads distributed differently. I may also add a new connection point 8-10 inches aft of rear one as I have room with the dodger, but it may move the loads too far out of line with the traveler. How are you getting 6:1 on the traveler? I have 4:1 and am puttign my feet all over the cabintop. Heres some pics of the bottom job and topside cleaning. Sorry about the resolution...

Seth · May 11, 2006

Loren is always "yachty"

Loren,

Your sailmaker is right, but it is common with loose footed mainsails to include a velcro strap to tie around the boom-usually this is in the case where there is no O/H car per se (unlike on the 38, which DOES have a full O/H car), but it does help spread the load a bit. If you have just the shackle type O/H with a slug in the sail, I would definitely use the strap-with our without a slug sewn onto the clew of the loose footed sail. :0305_alar

It is important to make sure you get the O/H tight in breezy conditions to make sure most of the loading is AFT, rather than UP, which would be the case with a loose outhaul in bigger breeze. Of course, this is good practice no matter what type of sail you have, but is a common error with cruisers (too lazy to adjust outhaul for conditions), and does cause sail, gear, and performance problems. It is slightly more obvious with a loose footed sail, but anyone contemplating a sail like this should be interested enough in performance to adjust the outhaul, right??

Enjoy!!

S

ted_reshetiloff · May 11, 2006

With the new 8:1 purchase on the outhaul it is a joy to adjust under load. My outhaul has a small car with 4 wheels on it that seems to run very smoothly. I am definately adjusting it a lot for conditions. Hope to have the rigid vang in in a few days too. More pics of the rigging work when that is done.

stbdtack · May 12, 2006

6:1 traveler purchase

triple stack at the end and a double added to the car. Havent sailed yet so not sure how much improvement will be had.....

Chris Miller · May 12, 2006

Thinking about trying the Harken 6:1

I've been contemplating the set-up at the bottom of this page: http://www.harken.com/rigtips/travelers.php since we currently have a harken setup. I'm hoping I can retrofit to it.
Chris

ted_reshetiloff · May 12, 2006

This looks good Chris. I think I could simply add the triples on the car ,the cheek block to get it down and the small stand up to get it aft. My traveler already has doubles on the ends. Only question is if I can fit that cheek block they reference under my end blocks.

ted_reshetiloff · May 15, 2006

Noticed more boom flexing this weekend. I'm guessing it has always been there I just never looked for it. My only thought is having the foot put on the new main but I really don't want to and I am not sure if it would even help anyway? What say ye sages of mid boom sheeting?

Geoff Johnson · May 15, 2006

I had an attached foot on my new Doyle main and then had it removed based on comments on this forum. I would hate to think I have to put it back (and Doyle might not do it for free this time)! However, even with the foot, there was considerable "bagginess" in material at the foot so I don't believe it provided much support for the boom. Mine bends too; as long as the bend is not permanent, I don't see it as a problem. After all we don't mind bending out masts.

BTW I noticed from your photographs that you patched the keel seam fore and aft. Did you tape it or just apply epoxy putty?

Seth · May 15, 2006

Right

I don't think the foot rope adds any significant support that would change the bending-and it may become permanent to some degree, but either way-you are right, and in very heavy air a little bend will help flatten a main with a bolt rope, won't do much for a loose foot-but then you already know you should mash the outhaul in these conditions.

Leave the foot rope off, enjoy the racy look of the bend (but keep an eye on this as you would any highly loaded part of the boat).

I think this may be because both of you may be sailing the boat a bit harder than you did before......

Enjoy!

S

ted_reshetiloff · May 16, 2006

Goeff on the keel joint I ground out the old fairing and put in some 24 oz biaxial cloth about 6 inches wide, then faired that in with filler.

stbdtack · May 16, 2006

I dont think my previous foot attachment provided any support either. They always looked loose or a little baggy. This is sheeted in pretty hard at the dock, enough to loosen the luff from a just snug tension. Bad pic but is your bend more than this? The vang was off here.

ted_reshetiloff · May 16, 2006

I have seen more than this, but this amount is pretty common even in lighter breeze. How much bend are you seeing when you are say beating into 15kts with the vang and sheet doing their thing optimally? I guess I am going to just try not to think about this any more... Looking forward to racing my Jet 14 tonight and this saturday. Maybe by memorial day weekend I will have forgotten all about turning my boom into a Pringle Chip...

Chris Miller · May 16, 2006

Or just call it a "Speed Bend" and tell yourself it's really fast- we do that with wrinkles sometimes. "Oh, yeah--- those are Speed Wrinkles and are super fast" (it helps if you do it with a Minnesota accent).
Chris

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