One Benefit...
Yeah, that is one benefit...
Once fuel becomes much more expensive, people will move back into cities, and begin walking more, driving less. We can then begin the long task of slowing ourselves down some - and trying to engage in behaviors that require more thinking and pondering... Stuff like sailing is great for that.
My powerboat friends used to always tease me about getting to places far away FAST! I told them that I enjoyed just being on the boat - that within her confines I found a great deal of peace - and that a simple local sail made me very happy (and cost very, very little).
//sse
Yeah, that is one benefit...
Once fuel becomes much more expensive, people will move back into cities, and begin walking more, driving less. We can then begin the long task of slowing ourselves down some - and trying to engage in behaviors that require more thinking and pondering... Stuff like sailing is great for that.
My powerboat friends used to always tease me about getting to places far away FAST! I told them that I enjoyed just being on the boat - that within her confines I found a great deal of peace - and that a simple local sail made me very happy (and cost very, very little).
//sse
While I heartily echo this sentiment I have to disagree. Sail power is not exactly free. The wind may be free but the hardware to harness it is far from cheap. Consider what a set of sails cost. How about the rigging, line, etc. This stuff is not cheap and it does wear out and need constant maintainence. Granted, it is cheaper than any powerboat if you figure it using length as a comparator. I suspect that a displacement powerboat, aka trawler is not a whole lot more expensive to run than most sailboats. They have very similar outlooks to sailboaters since they aren't going anywhere fast either. RT
Chris Miller
Sustaining Member
Cheap Summer...
Rob makes a good point, but... if you have boat and sails already (just don't ask about the repair bill for our dodger
), we are planning on having a relatively inexpensive summer. Weekends not spent racing will be spent cruising, none of which should involve more than 1-1.5 tanks of fuel. All totalled about $200-$250. That would be one day trip (there and back) on a similar sized powerboat.
Just a thought.
Also, I was doing a little voo-doo on the "gentleman" that insisted on (sped up to do so) passing in front of our race boat within 200 ft of the bow with his big fishing boat on saturday. "I curse you with $4.50 per gallon!
".
Rob makes a good point, but... if you have boat and sails already (just don't ask about the repair bill for our dodger
), we are planning on having a relatively inexpensive summer. Weekends not spent racing will be spent cruising, none of which should involve more than 1-1.5 tanks of fuel. All totalled about $200-$250. That would be one day trip (there and back) on a similar sized powerboat.Just a thought.
Also, I was doing a little voo-doo on the "gentleman" that insisted on (sped up to do so) passing in front of our race boat within 200 ft of the bow with his big fishing boat on saturday. "I curse you with $4.50 per gallon!
".Art Mullinax
Member III
Limits
At any price,
A powerboater is limited by the size of his fuel tank, A sailor is limited only by his (her) imagination???
At any price,
A powerboater is limited by the size of his fuel tank, A sailor is limited only by his (her) imagination???
u079721
Contributing Partner
Certainly not free, but...
I agree that sailing is certainly not free, since I well remember the $3500 main I bought a couple of seasons ago.
BUT, the incremental cost of a day out sailing can be as little as a quart or two of fuel - probably much less than most of us have to spend to drive to our boats. Compare that with the incremental cost of a day aboard a big sport fisherman (up to hundreds of dollars) and it looks pretty darn good. Which probably helps explain why - as I mention in my "Is boating down in your area?" a few weeks ago - you don't see the big power boats leave the dock much anymore, and why our mostly powerboat yacht club has so many empty slips.
Makes you wonder about RVs too. I don't imagine sales of RVs will be going up anytime soon.
I agree that sailing is certainly not free, since I well remember the $3500 main I bought a couple of seasons ago.
BUT, the incremental cost of a day out sailing can be as little as a quart or two of fuel - probably much less than most of us have to spend to drive to our boats. Compare that with the incremental cost of a day aboard a big sport fisherman (up to hundreds of dollars) and it looks pretty darn good. Which probably helps explain why - as I mention in my "Is boating down in your area?" a few weeks ago - you don't see the big power boats leave the dock much anymore, and why our mostly powerboat yacht club has so many empty slips.
Makes you wonder about RVs too. I don't imagine sales of RVs will be going up anytime soon.
Sailing (and to a large extent displacement-hull power boating - "trawlers") has always seemed like an activity that gets less expensive per-hour the more you do it...
i.e. the major expenses, like boat, diesel engine, sails and rigging are all "front loaded" expenses.
Power boating, OTOH, costs a great deal of $ for every actual hour you are burning fuel. Appropriately enough, you can buy production powerboats for relatively little money. Long as you keep that Bayliner cruiser with those twin Chevy's tied to the dock, it's an inexpensive second home! And, that's just what the majority of 'em are used for around here.
We "discovered" this theory when we switched from downhill skiing to sailing many years ago. Our ski stuff was not too expensive, but the cost was quite high for every day we drove up to the mountain and bought the lift ticket$.
With our sailboat, the cost was much higher to buy it, but the cost per hour dropped quickly with every hour we went out.
Loren
i.e. the major expenses, like boat, diesel engine, sails and rigging are all "front loaded" expenses.
Power boating, OTOH, costs a great deal of $ for every actual hour you are burning fuel. Appropriately enough, you can buy production powerboats for relatively little money. Long as you keep that Bayliner cruiser with those twin Chevy's tied to the dock, it's an inexpensive second home! And, that's just what the majority of 'em are used for around here.
We "discovered" this theory when we switched from downhill skiing to sailing many years ago. Our ski stuff was not too expensive, but the cost was quite high for every day we drove up to the mountain and bought the lift ticket$.
With our sailboat, the cost was much higher to buy it, but the cost per hour dropped quickly with every hour we went out.
Loren
Chris Miller said:Also, I was doing a little voo-doo on the "gentleman" that insisted on (sped up to do so) passing in front of our race boat within 200 ft of the bow with his big fishing boat on saturday. "I curse you with $4.50 per gallon!
Hi Chris,
Do more of those Voodoo chants for me. I keep my boat on a community pier on the Severn, and get absolutely beaten by wakes. It is unbelievable. I look at these high gas prices as a blessing, because it really does keep the power boat traffic down, and my poor creature from getting pounded all weekend long.
I've got to agree that sailing may have some up front expenses, and when you do buy the new furler, sails etc., it seems like a lot, but a friend of mine easily spends 350+ a weekend to go out doing his power boat stuff. At that rate, he buys me a new furler every 4-5 weeks or so....
-David
Independence 31
Emerald
Chris Miller said:Also, I was doing a little voo-doo on the "gentleman" that insisted on (sped up to do so) passing in front of our race boat within 200 ft of the bow with his big fishing boat on saturday. "I curse you with $4.50 per gallon!
Oh my God - that brings back memories... I had a some schmuck in a 50-60 cruiser come up on my port quarter (in Commencement Bay) when I had everything out and was going at a good clip -
This moron came within, say 75 feet of my beam, and cut over right in front of me!
No kidding - 75ft to 60 ft - right in front of me! I had no shoot up - but the result was something akin to a death roll.I swear to God, it was the only time I jumped up, extended my middle finger and started SCREAMING (or chanting, I guess) FU! FU! FU! (for lack of a better way of describing it). His 'buddy' up in the flying bridge turned and looked at me and I SWEAR - I was HOPING he would come back...
In some ways I'm glad the fuel prices have gone up - it keeps those morons at the dock where they belong - and hopefully will get them off the water for good!
//sse
Jeff Meier
Member II
i like to think of where our money actually goes; ie innovative companies and skilled tradesmen who make the sails, rigging, etc., instead of oil companies...
rwthomas1 said:
Oh, yes, I agree, but consider how much a power-boater has to pay to have his engine over-hauled, or the regular maintenance on some of those big honkin' monsters (a co-worker has a boat powered by a GMC 454 V8... sheesh).
A lot of the cost of sailing is in *sweat*-- managing the lines and the like.
But, then, Sailing is also a "stress reduction" exercise, too. Stress, after all, comes from a sense of being cornered, where you have little influence (much less control) over your life. Where else but sailing are you bending an elemental force of nature to your will?
All right, admittedly there are limits to what you can do.
Sean, one comment about power-boaters "getting there sooner"...
Life isn't an exercise where we are rewarded by getting to our destination quickly but one where we want to take our time. Life is paid in hourly increments, rather than by a salary, and the clock is counting off our heartbeats.
Sorry, like another person I know, I like to play at being a "Stand Up Philosopher".
All good points! You don't have to sell sailing to me I have been doing it since I can remember. I fully understand that powerboats are way more expensive but to call sailing "free" is still not correct. Relatively speaking, it is MUCH cheaper. Sailboats are still expensive to keep and operate. Not that I mind that, its all part of the fun. I look at my E38 as my "second" home, "vacation" home, stress relief, etc. all rolled into one. IMHO, sailors are better boaters to begin with. You have to understand certain fundamentals to actually get anywhere by sailing. Powerboaters don't get this and I think that is why they just don't understand the basic maritime rules. I will enjoy the decrease in boat traffic this summer as fuel hits $4/gallon. RT
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sail fuel per mile
I once read that if you're going to sail around the world you can expect to totally wear out your sails. So that got me to thinking..hmm..a set of sails costs about $5K and lasts about 25K miles (circumference of Earth at the equator). That comes to 20 cents per mile for the expendable "sail fuel". For comparison my minivan gets 22 mpg and at the current $3/gal for gas that's about 14 cents a mile for fuel. If I sail to the other side of the Chesapeake Bay and back from my latitude, that's 25 miles which costs about $5 in sail fuel. Not bad for an afternoon of pleasurable sailing.
Disclaimer: No attempt has been made to account for nautical miles versus statute miles. Your actual sail mileage may vary.
-- neal
I once read that if you're going to sail around the world you can expect to totally wear out your sails. So that got me to thinking..hmm..a set of sails costs about $5K and lasts about 25K miles (circumference of Earth at the equator). That comes to 20 cents per mile for the expendable "sail fuel". For comparison my minivan gets 22 mpg and at the current $3/gal for gas that's about 14 cents a mile for fuel. If I sail to the other side of the Chesapeake Bay and back from my latitude, that's 25 miles which costs about $5 in sail fuel. Not bad for an afternoon of pleasurable sailing.
Disclaimer: No attempt has been made to account for nautical miles versus statute miles. Your actual sail mileage may vary.
-- neal
Gary Freeburg
Member II
When the engine runs it creates noise and polution. My sails slap at me once in a while but they generally don't belch out much gas mixed with raw water. I'd prefer to hear just the ringing in my own old ears and if there is any gas to be passed, well, that's why we bring the dog along.
Great topic.
Gary Freeburg
Katmai E 27
Great topic.
Gary Freeburg
Katmai E 27
sails' MPH (miles per hour of use)
Nero was dead on-you COULD think of a new sail as a "full tank" in many senses of the word(s). You can use them for so many miles, and as he says, "actual mileage may vary" with how much of a "leadfoot" you are.
Thankfully for cruisers, who CAN measure their sails' life in miles, the really high end racing sails like on the AC class yachts, measure the life of sails in terms of number of tacks!!! And not very many of them! So these sails *(like a HEMI) do not get very good mileage. Also, the higher quality sail gets better mileage.
Forgive me for taking some offense (well, maybe umbrage instead) when I hear the price of a new sail lamented. Good quality sails (as opposed to mass produced, lower quality sails) have become some of the most labor intensive, lowest profit products that can be purchased, and the folks who build them take a huge amount of pride in them. In fact, good sails, like the $3500 mainsail, are a bargain once you look into the whole process of design, material selection, construction, and after market support that a reputable sailmaker puts into a new sail...They are a highly engineered product-not a commodity, and I don't hear the same complaints about radar, or autopilots-and these are much more of a commodity than sails-yet we seem happy to drop thousands on these things, but the price of a good sail seems to really bother some of us...
Not that I am sensitive....:nerd:
Cheers!!!
Nero was dead on-you COULD think of a new sail as a "full tank" in many senses of the word(s). You can use them for so many miles, and as he says, "actual mileage may vary" with how much of a "leadfoot" you are.
Thankfully for cruisers, who CAN measure their sails' life in miles, the really high end racing sails like on the AC class yachts, measure the life of sails in terms of number of tacks!!! And not very many of them! So these sails *(like a HEMI) do not get very good mileage. Also, the higher quality sail gets better mileage.
Forgive me for taking some offense (well, maybe umbrage instead) when I hear the price of a new sail lamented. Good quality sails (as opposed to mass produced, lower quality sails) have become some of the most labor intensive, lowest profit products that can be purchased, and the folks who build them take a huge amount of pride in them. In fact, good sails, like the $3500 mainsail, are a bargain once you look into the whole process of design, material selection, construction, and after market support that a reputable sailmaker puts into a new sail...They are a highly engineered product-not a commodity, and I don't hear the same complaints about radar, or autopilots-and these are much more of a commodity than sails-yet we seem happy to drop thousands on these things, but the price of a good sail seems to really bother some of us...
Not that I am sensitive....:nerd:
Cheers!!!
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Benefits
No one has yet determined the specific health benefit of a day of recreational sailing, but I'm sure there is a subtle body chemistry change when one is on the water and in tune with the rhythms of the wind and waves. I am relaxed and mellow when I step off the boat at the end of such a day, even if it has been a day of tense racing action. Perhaps we are indeed adding some clock ticks to our lives by filtering out some of the rat-race poisons.
No one has yet determined the specific health benefit of a day of recreational sailing, but I'm sure there is a subtle body chemistry change when one is on the water and in tune with the rhythms of the wind and waves. I am relaxed and mellow when I step off the boat at the end of such a day, even if it has been a day of tense racing action. Perhaps we are indeed adding some clock ticks to our lives by filtering out some of the rat-race poisons.
Geoff Johnson
Fellow Ericson Owner
"When a powerboater gets on his boat, he has some place to go. When a sailor is on his boat, he is where he wants to be."
Art Mullinax
Member III
Fruit juices
It may be all of the healthy fruit juices in our rum drinks. Lots of vitamin C...:nerd:
It may be all of the healthy fruit juices in our rum drinks. Lots of vitamin C...:nerd: