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Assyms for the E-38

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
Looking into this for my boat and am wondering what any of you guys are using? Sail would be primarily for racing as I have a cruising kite now but its too flat to sail very deep with. I'm thinking of building a deck mounted sprit but don't know how PHRF will treat me. So far I have spoken to North and they recommended something called a G2 Gennaker for about $2800. Below is what North guy said:

"I have included a price as well as some information on a G-2 Tri- radial sail. This is an "all purpose" sail, since you are going with a single sail downwind inventory, this is the sail to have.
The G-2 covers a wide range of wind angles and using the .75 Nylon it will be durable enough to use in all wind speed ranges.
If you have a chance go to our website www.northsails and check out our color me fast page, this allows you to create your own custom color layout.
Feel free to contact me in our Annapolis office anytime to discuss the sail. We are currently looking at an early June delivery date."

Hello Mr. Reshetiloff,

"I have included a wind speed/angle chart which illustrates the ranges our G-series Gennakers work well in. 85-165 AWA
As you can see, the G-2 is the most versatile option, and has a sweet spot around the 135awa zone.
I would suggest going with our Norlon 75 for the most durability.
We would build the sail to max girth allowed by our PHRF region here in the Chesapeake.
Hope this helps and let me know your thoughts"


The 85-165 AWA I added bc the I could not get his chart into this post. Thats what it looked like to me. I have not yet seen my buddies FX kite but I believe it might be pretty decent. They did not use the best cloth so it may not last as long but at 1/2 the price if the shape is good I may be compelled to go that route. I dont plan to do too much racing so a sail like that would last me a longer time. I just wonder how good their (FX) shape is going to be verses a big name loft like North, Doyle, or Q. Service is important too. North uses Dacron leech tapes on this sail, Im not sure what the luff chord is made from.
 
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Seth

Sustaining Partner
G-2, A-2, etc

The -2 designation is what the industry generally calls the AP shape for a racing A-sail. Quantum has it, Doyle, etc. This is definitely what I would have on my boat if I wanted a "one size fits all" sail. The dacron tapes are correct, and I am sure they will use something like Spectra or Dyneema or Twaron in the luff-you just can't do without it (and have a stable luff).

The Norlon is not may favorite fabric for this application (I love the Airex products for racing A-sails), but it is decent-can you find out what cloth FX used?-My only beef with the all-Norlon .75 is that I might go with Airex 700 (.7 oz.) in the luff and then maybe Ariez 600 (.6 oz roughly) in the body-stringer sail, same(ish) weight. They could do something similar with the Norlon I'm sure. The thing is that these sails load up a lot on the luff (since they are like a headsail), so a beefier fabric up there can be a good thing-and this WILL help durability. Ounce for ounce, Airex 600 is stronger than most .75 oz fabrics..But there are many ways to do this right, and North certainly knows how.

More than durability, the issue in choosing the right fabric is shape holding-just like a genoa. A poor performing fabric wil do the same thing it will on a main or genny-the draft will move aft in the sail just when you don't want it to, and in general will not be as stable under load-meaning the designed shape may or not be evident when you are sailing. Durability IS also an issue, but secondary to the performance issue.

I would be surprised if they used really bad cloth on the FX sail, so I would like to know...

But-going with this sail, and not doing the sprit, at least at first, will be very cool. On light air close reaches, just set it off the bow. If and when the breeze comes aft, you can at your leisure set the pole (or not, but it will be faster downhill) if you have the crew, and go very fast and deep. If you don't rig the pole, sail better angles and gybe downwind (this will be OK in lighter air anyway). You will be VERY happy, and everything the spy from the Evil Empire said was right on target!:D :devil:

Later, to make things even better, add the sprit if you like- but this may have an impact on your rating, since your new "JC" will for sure be longer than your J and SPL (and if you take this hit., you should be entitled to a bigger sail to match the new JC and faster rating, etc. etc.-and so on. Remember the girth is a function of JC...:p

Go for it-you will transform the boat!! This sail will be nearly optimal all the time except when it is too windy for a full sized sail-

Seeya!

S
 

Roger Ware

Member III
cruising code 0 (doyle ups) on a stand alone furler?

Apologies for corrupting the thread somewhat, but I am interested in what Seth and others think of this solution for a cruising sail inventory. Drop to 100% genoa on the furler, since you will use it only upwind or off the wind in 15 knots plus. Add a cruising code 0 on a stand alone furler (doyle UPS Seth?) and use it everywhere except dead upwind, with the genoa furled. Easier to set than a "scooped Asym" and faster on a close reach, plus once you have hoisted it, you would leave it there all day, or even all week! I have noticed that the odd new design is being shipped with exactly this inventory.

Thoughts?

Roger, E38 200 "Starlight II"
Kingston, ON
 

Seth

Sustaining Partner
Good idea, sort of.

Rog,

The Code 0 on the stand alone furler, paired with the small jib on a regular furler is reasonable.

The major downside is on angles deeper than about 110-120 AWA, you will be at a disadvtage compared to those carrying an A-sail. This is for 2 reasons. The first is a shape and sheeting issue-the A-sail is better able to be eased farther away from the boat-which is needed at deeper angles-the tack line can be eased, even the halyard sometimes, so the deeper you get, the worse off you will be in relative terms. Never mind the fact that you always have the option of using the pole..The second is size. Your Code 0 is limited to the max genoa size you are rated for: LP's of 150-155% usually, but an A-sail, being a spinnaker by definition (the code 0's are usually measured as headsails), can be up to 180% of J (JC/SPL)-so they will have girths of up to 30% larger. Since A-sails will sail in light air with 10 degrees of the Code 0 (or close to it depending on now they are shaped), the A-sail might be quicker except when sailing as close as possible-and certainly as the angles get deeper, this will more and more the case.

The ideal combo will be the Code 0, the 100% on the furler, and the A-sail-this is still a minimal inventory, but will give you nearly the ideal combo over a very wide range of angles.

I know space down below is always a concern, so this will be up to you, and the conditions you sail in.


Seeya,

S

































The ideal combo is a Code 0
 

Roger Ware

Member III
always looking for a way to reduce the last ounce of effort

perhaps too much - after all I have hoisted my A-sail single handed with no problems. Thanks for the insight, and I see your point about the larger AWAs. So, what would be the ball park cost of the code 0 sail that I am talking about?

Cheers, Roger
 
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