Protest Exorbitant Slip Rate Increases at California Yacht Marinas!

[Jeff Asbury]

Protest Exorbitant Slip Rate Increases at California Yacht Marinas!

I came home last night to find the following letter in my mail box. My current slip fees are $243.00 plus electric. They were roughly based on a rate of $8.50 per foot from when I first secured my slip back in 2002. Can they do this? Is there no rent control in San Pedro like there is at Shore Line Marina in Long Beach. This seem outrageous. Did any one else at California Yacht Marinas get such a big rate Increase. I thought the rates were high to begin with, but this is ridiculous!:esad: :boohoo: :eek: :mad:

Please read the following.


"There will be an adjustment in slip fees effective April 1, 2006. Commencing on April 1, 2006 your new slip fee is $285.00.

We recognize that your slip fee increase is considerable. For several years, your berthing fee was based on 27 lineal feet even though the slip you occupy is 30 feet. Your new slip fee is now consistent with all other customers at Cabrillo Marina where the slip fee is based on length of slip or vessel, whichever is greater. However, the per foot rate applied is at the lower rate for 27 foot vessels instead of the higher 30 foot rate. Your newly adjusted slip fee is 20 % less than those customers in similar size slips since April of 2005."

Sincerely

Cabrillo Marina

Office Manager

[Sean Engle]

Yeah, they started doing that at my marina (http://www.johnnysdock.com/default.asp) in early 2003 - going around with a measuring tape - pist off many people who turned around and left.

//sse

[Jeff Asbury]

Thanks for feeling my pain Sean, the problem with moving is my options are pretty bleak. A lot of other marinas in the area are in pretty bad areas and not well maintained as well as a half hour inside the harbor by water. Some are even possibly going to be demolished as part of new harbor developments.

[NateHanson]

Sounds like there's not much to do about it. If they know that they're one of few good options in town, and are aware that you probably won't leave even with a huge hike, then they can pretty much do what they want. It's a bummer. Are those monthly rates you guys are discussing? Pretty stiff for a 27 footer. :(

[Jeff Asbury]

Yup, monthly.

[Art Mullinax]

They use the same measurement method here around Charleston SC. By the slip length or by the boat length, whichever is more (for them). The bow pulpit or bowsprit is also considered.

[Sean Engle]

...Some are even possibly going to be demolished as part of new harbor developments.

Oddly enough, after I left, that's what happened at Johnny's. They were/are really owned by an investment group, who then sold off the rights to that side of the waterway - so they tore their docks out and reconfigured what was left.

Then the new marina on the otherside of the waterway expanded, filling the space... Of course, rates went up to reflect the new 'quality' of improvement, I'm sure...

//sse

[erobitaille]

We have found here in S.F. Bay once one marina rases it's price all the others raise theirs with in week or two. Our just went from $7.25/ft to $8.00

[Jeff Asbury]

Bet their not paying $10.50 a foot up there in the Sound. California is just getting too damm expensive all around. They just might even start taxing the crappy air we breath here in LA.:mad:

[Annapolis E-27]

While I feel the grab on your wallet, it might make you feel better to know that there are people here in the Annapolis area that would kill for $285.00a month for a 27 footer. In fact most here have to pay for a 12 month contract even though the pay again for their time on the hard in the winter. That attacks the wallet twice from October - April.

OUCH!!!!:boohoo:

[Jeff Asbury]

Yikes! I didn't realize it was that bad on the East Coast. It just pisses me off that this is about a 20% increase. Works out to $504.00 more per year for me. They got me by the you know what's though. I'm thinking Alaska now! I know, a 3 month sailing season would be a harsh contrast to a 12 month. Would have to be cheaper though.

[Chris Miller]

We left Annapolis 2 years ago-- Paying about $11 per foot for a 40 ft slip.
Things are better down where we are now- we're paying about $7 at one of the nicest marinas in town...

[Loren Beach]

Point of reference (FWIW) --
A nice private marina slip for our 34 footer would run me about $180 to $220 a month or so, around here.
Our yacht club charges all dues, fees, and moorage in one quarterly billing, at about $380. Of course we all put in a mimimum of 12 work hours a year.

With our nice facility, the usual problem is asking enough of the right sort of questions, in direct and indirect ways, to see if an applicant wants to be an active member and is not solely taking advantage of our inexpensive moorage...
:rolleyes:

I would probably move my retirement domicile and sailboat to the SF Bay area in a minute, but my Oregon pension cannot support me down there.

The problem with SoCal (and Seattle, too) is that there are lots more boaters with money than there are marinas... and Capitalism works to your personal detriment in that situation.

(They may have tried to warn us of this back in Economics 101, but we laughed because we were young and strong and thought we would always manage to be on the "supply" side of the "supply and demand" equation. Ha!)
:boohoo:

Loren in Portland, OR
RCYC, 90 miles up the Columbia from the ocean

[Emerald]

Hi,


This is fun. I need to pinch myself to remember it's really true. I live in a community with it's own little marina. We have about 75 slips total. After Hurricane Isabel, we had massive pier damage, and the repairs for the pier had to get absorbed by slip fees. So, my annual fee for my slip for Emerald (she's almost 36' by the time you put the bowsprit in the equation - so it's one of our "big" slips) has risen to a whopping $400/year, and this is on the Severn River about 3.5 miles from the mouth/Chesapeake Bay right at the heart of Annapolis. For my $400 a year, I get unlimited water and electricity (we even have some stray electricity in the water for those who can figure out what to do with it...), and about two years ago, the community purchased a mobile pump out unit, so I can deal with the holding tank as well. I figure Emerald is about 400 feet from my doorstep.


Sorry if this depresses anyone, but I couldn't resist :devil:


-David
Independence 31
Emerald

[Dan Hayes]

Yes, but...

I just walked outside to snag a sandwich from the sandwich vendor. It's chilly today - about 62 degrees, and there is not a cloud in the sky. There's a nice 10 knot breeze blowing, and I know that if I go online, I can find a weather report that's going to tell me that it's blowing a good 15 down at the boat... and it's been like that all week. It's going to rain tomorrow, but the weekend is slated for more of the same... all sun, no clouds, no rain - just pretty darn un-dramatically perfect for winter sailing... And everybody driving on Pacific Coast Highway is dreaming about owning a boat.

However, down in Newport Beach, slip rent is - honestly - $25 to $40 a foot, per month, for a 40 foot slip. You can rent a mooring for $300 a year, but - there is a 40 year waiting list. The way things work around here, if you buy a $500 boat for $40,000, you can have that mooring today.

The really sad part about our sport is that the numbers don't crunch for the average person, especially a young person, to get into it, unless you are wealthy. Boat builders, who usually make about 25% profit, would rather build one $100,000 boat to make $25k, not 4 $25,000 boats to make $25k. While I can't blame them, it's why boat ownership is decreasing, despite all the used boats on the market.

Same deal for slips - why rent four 20 foot slips for $10 a foot, when they can get $30 a foot for one 80 foot slip? And, the guy with the 80 footer isn't griping like we are...

For now, I'm going sailing every chance I get, while I can afford it!

[Jeff Asbury]

Well said Dan, :(

Thank you for slapping a little sense into me. This post will hopefully be the last of the whining you will here from me for a while. I knew Newport was expensive, but I had no idea how expensive. I will have to try to cut some corners else where in my budget to do it, but I am staying put for now.

Thank You

[Jeff Asbury]

David / Emerald,

You are one lucky SOB. My Father used to rent a dock from a neighbor across the street from our house on Lake Washington in Bellevue, WA for about 10 bucks a month in the late 70's & early 80's. Those were the days!

[Emerald]

Hi Jeff,


I admit it, and as I said earlier, I have to pinch myself to see if this is a dream. The truth is, if I had to pay the going 3-5K that people pay around here, it could prevent me from having her at all - just that extra cash flow that could break the camel's back. I really do feel for folks who have to pay high rates, or have to give up the sport - it's sad.


-David
Independence 31
Emerald

[Dan Hayes]

Next time you're out sailing near a dock full of people, like over near Ports of Call, and you see people lined up looking at you, just remember - all the times you stood on the dock and dreamed of someday having a sailboat. You'll smile, wave, and at that time, your slip rent will seem like a bargain...

[Sean Engle]

Bet their not paying $10.50 a foot up there in the Sound. California is just getting too damm expensive all around. They just might even start taxing the crappy air we breath here in LA.:mad:

Actually, we're typically paying between $8.00 and $11.00 per foot - see attached for Shilshole - depending on where you put it (fresh water tends to be more expensive - if you're willing to put it on the other side of the Sound, it drops quite a bit - of course, then you have a ferry to contend with...).

I was going to add that I remember the big electricity shortage back in 2001 (?) - and my marina added an 'electrical surcharge' onto my bill - and never took it off again once the 'crisis' went away... :mad:

This is the reason that whenever one of my (non-boating) friends makes a comment about 'yachts' or 'yacht owners', they end up with a 15 minute lecture from me about how much most owners sacrifice to own their boats - and how (for the most part) non of us are rich...:esad:

...money-wise, I mean... :egrin:

//sse

ps: I think this response qualifies as a RANT! :hoppingmad:

[rwthomas1]

Just for comparison here in RI its between $100 and $140+ per foot for the season. That gets very pricey very fast. There are cheaper slips and obviously moorings are available but then you deal with waiting lists that are years long. Most people here haul for the winter so thats another $300-$500 each time it goes in or comes out. The only plus is winter in-water storage is pretty cheap ususally less than 1/2 the cost of hauling and yard fees.

We also are facing pressure from developers, etc. that are buying up waterfront and squeezing out boatyards and marinas. Kinda funny how these rich folks put up a huge house on the water for the view of the water and boats then they immediately put the squeeze on any existing facility and expansion proposal.

I am very fortunate that I have no debt other than the sailboat, live in a house for free (inlaws extra home) and belong to a member-owned yacht club. This keeps the rates to $35/ft for the season. The system works on seniority and work hours so if you are a newbie like me you have to work 100hrs to even think about slip eligibility. I was lucky to get a mooring this year. The other negative is our lease is up in 2010 and the town wants to let a developer have the land to do a "high-end marina with condos" So likely I will be shopping for a new home in 3-4 years. Kinda sucks as I am on the fairly comfortable end of boat ownership. If the marina goes away the costs will pinch for sure. I know I can continue ownership at that point but I will have to sacrifice a lot of other things.

The one bright side is the cost of fuel. Right now there are quite a few powerboaters that are getting out of big boats or just not going in next year. This should bode well for slip availability in the short run.

RT

[Keith Parcells]

Jeff,
Two months back, they raised our fee for a 34' slip from $273 to $354, plus $8/mo. for electric. A 23% increase. In all honesty, though, they had not raised the fees in at least 4 years. Now, if I can get my salary to jump >5%/year to match, I might be OK.....:esad:
Keith
E-33
Vintage Marina
Channel Islands Harbor, CA

[Jeff Meier]

Jeff - sounds like they just changed their policy on you and not the per foot rate. now they charge for either slip length or LOA, whichever is greater, so you're stuck with a bill for 30'.

are there any 25' slips at cabrillo marina or maybe holiday harbor? i know there are some at shoreline marina but you would have to call about availability and dimensions. if you can squeeze your beam into one of those you will go back to paying for 27'. just a thought..

[Don Smith]

Try this analysis. Add up your slip fees for an entire year, then divide that total by the number of days you go sailing in a year. Let's call it the slip fee to sailing ratio. My guess would be that for people who enjoy getting out on their boats, those in expensive, sunny Southern California have a lower slip fee to sailing ratio than people who have their boats in, say, Maryland. For people, and I know some, who like having a boat for bragging rights and cocktail parties, but aren't much interested in actually going sailing, the above analysis of course doesn't mean much.

[Kim Schoedel]

Our fee's just went up $5.00 per month. Now that I have read all these threads, I will need to quit whinning! We are in a very nice marina (inland lake) excellent maintenance and great managment. At $125 US per month plus electricity. Free water and wash down. Got's to quit whinning.

[Blue Chip]

Blue Chip is a 32 footer based in almeda at the second fanciest place in the immediate area. Less that $7.00 a foot with about $5.00 a month for electricty. the "fancy" Mariba on the island just went up to $10.00 a foot. we have a gas dock on site, a couple of electronic repair shops, a boat yard and the shower building is well maintaned with about 10 heated showers. We can comfortably sail April through October, but if you a a little tougher, and younger, you can do it all year long.
After living the last 45 years in Montana...I'm NOT COMPLAINING!!

[Randy Rutledge]

It is not blue water just old Lake Weiss in AL but a club with a free use lift, large work areas, water and power at the dock, trailer parking, clubhouse, and an ice maker for $580 per year sounds pretty good after this list of prices (work party participation is required).
Lake sailing is restricted, but no salt problems, inexpensive facility fees and the finest drinking club with a serious sailing problem you could ever be part of.

I look at the bigger E boats and think about some day but with retirement near and the cost of a bigger boat and slip fees my E-29 looks pretty good. With my trailer I can take her to the big water and then bring her back home where I can afford to sail and have a cleat to tie up to.

Bottom line it is not the cost of the boat or the horse it is the cost of keeping her.

[Ray Rhode]

Here in Florida we are dealing with a slightly different phase of the same problem. Boatyards and marinas are disappearing at an alarming rate. In our area we have lost one of our three boatyards, two of our marinas. One more boatyard in on the blocks and other marinas are vulnerable. Waterfront property is too valuable to be used for boating. This months BOAT/US magazine has a story about what is happening. All of this drives up the cost to boat owners. Pretty soon you will not be able to rent a slip no matter how much you are able to pay.

We are currently discussing getting together a group at our marina and forming a club and buying the place before the developers do. The State of Florida has a grant program to assist citizens attempting to save the marinas.

Ray Rhode
S/Y Journey
E35-III, #189 and

[Steve Swann]

We are quite a ways from big water here in Boise, so a trailerable seemed to make obvious sense to us after looking at the cost of what you folks have to contend with. We give up a lot of room, but there are trade-ups as well. But heck, I am happy on a Sunfish.

Since our Ericson only is only 5'6" headroom inside, I tinkered with the thought of renaming it "Stoopid Boat" because I am 6'3" and I stand all stoop-ed over down below. Tawni wouldn't let me. Our E25 isn't all that big inside either, but trailerability was important for mobility. And we can always explore distant new sailing grounds after a days' beat to weather at the posted speed limit. (April 5th we are heading to south to San Carlos Mexico - 3 days and 1300 miles away by trailer - and I don't have to tack or jibe even once!)

Is it any better to put a boat on a trailer in some of these places you guys sail? Smaller yes, but oftentimes I hear owners say that their small boat days were some of their happiest memories.

[CaptnNero]

In Deale, MD (20 miles south of Annapolis) we're paying $3850 annual for a 38 foot slip. That is based on a one year contract and includes electric and water. The increases have been at least a few hundred a year since we came here in 2001.

[Tom Prince]

When I was at the Ala Wai the fee was $140. a month. Unfortunately the City and County and the State mismanage all the small boat operations and the docks are failing at an alarming rate. When my dock was condemed I put my name on a waiting list and moved to Keahi Marine center. I now pay $280. a month for my 27. After reading all the posts I guess this is about average. ...It used to be that many boats included Hawaii in there cruising plans. No more