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High and low aspect headsails

Kevlarpirate

Member II
I would like to get some oppinions and experiences regarding choosing
a high aspect blade with little or no overlap vs. low aspect with overlap
genoas. considering the sail area would be equal on both. This mostly involves higher wind conditions. As time goes by I find I am trending toward higher aspect blades, however I found a low aspect sail in my inventory of 32 sails (2 boats) was very powerful in 30+ kts. References to other articles and publications are also welcome
Thanks
 

Seth

Sustaining Partner
Low vs. High

Well Kev,

On more or less modern desgns like the mighty 46, higher aspect non overlapping headsails are clearly the better performers-especially upwind-this is simply a more efficient airfoil, and the boat will make better progress uphill with a HA #3 or #4, than it will with a Low aspect sail of the same size (short and wide).

The advantage will diminish as you sail on deeper angles, and as the wind increases, but still, if I had the choice I would have small high aspect sails because they will maximize my ability to go uphill in the worst conditions, and this is when a boat is most vulnerable-needing to go upwind from a lee shore in really rough weather-The HA will never be slower, and if it is more or less equal when reaching, I will take the benefit of the upwind advantage.

That is not to say there is anything wrong with a low aspect sail in rough conditions, they can be slightly easier to handle-but remember-they MUST have a penant on the head-you can't have the halyard coming down halfway down the headstay to a headsail-because of the splice location-you will break the halyard-unless you have all rope halyards, which are a bad idea on a boat this big and heavy.
S
 
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Kevlarpirate

Member II
Still wondering!

Thanks Seth , Yes, I agree however, I will admit that I am trending this way because I like the looks of the HA. and since exotic sailcloth can support
the flatness needed, it seems like the thing to do, plus other advantages for sail handling. However, I would like to do a comparison in heavier air, with equal boats, (hard to do). I was recently impressed by the performance of another club boat I owe 25 seconds to . He had 150 with depowered upper 1/3, and I... in the "mighty 46" (that would be a good name!) was running a full main and my 85% LP very high clewed yankee (with very good shape).
I had the full luff powered up but had dropped the inner headsail since we were now going up. The other guy had my speed with less heel, he also had one reef in, which is more the convention on these boats to keep the headsail big and reef main first. I was totally dialed, so there was nothing left... just seemed slow. With my very high clew, I had no endplate effect, and had plenty of wind on the deck which I was loosing. With that much wind, I was thinking the sail area aloft was not gaining me anything I already had on the deck, and the added weight , although not that much, or maybe it was?, was just increasing my heel. So there lies my thinking!
In defence of high clews, they are bad when shipping green water but that was not the case here.

BTW, I plan to ship my NPT41 to Fla and race the Miami Nassau race (next year) Still race?? she sails a 96 phfr easily!!
 

Seth

Sustaining Partner
Beat me to it!

It is hard to address your "race" with the other boat without knowing what kind of boat it was-the ratings are not always reflective in all conditions. Having said that-you are right-the high clew sails are GREAT for big seas (they stay out of the water), but as you noticed, the lack of endplate makes them pretty poor upwind sails-when you really need to point. They are OK just cracked off, but not so much when sheeted hard-It is really easy to close down the leech on them when sheeting them hard-and that will KILL your speed. Also the geometry makes it hard for them to be flat enough to be good upwind sails-they tend to be fairly full-compared to a #3 or #4 low clewed upwind sail-and this also can hurt your VMG upwind.

But even more to the point of your "race", a 150% genny-even if the lead is dropped WAY aft and the top is wide open is something you can't really compare to an 85% genoa-reef or no reef in the main. One of you was either overpowered or underpowered-and I suspect you were a bit underpowered-although it may not have felt that way when tying to go uphill with what is really a reaching sail. Also, despite your observations, I would argue against that "convention"-Big headsails and a reef may net good boat speed, but rarely will they get the same VMG upwind as a bigger main and PROPER sized genoa for the conditions. But, to really evaluate wjhat happened, what kind of boat was it? Did they have more crew on the rail (this is HUGE-even on these boats)? etc. Tell me more and we can work it through!

BTW-I could be talked into that race on a Newport 41-keep me posted-Need a navigator?

Cheers,
S
 
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Kevlarpirate

Member II
more

My competition was a 42 foot 21000 lb racer cruiser of similar design
although stiffer due to wide beam in the aft section, and in "displacement hull" mode as I was also. I think I was underpowered as you suggested and to compete I needed about a 110% deck sweeper blade. I would have added 5 deg heel and a 1/4 kt. .Surprisingly I have beat in 25 kts at over 40 deg of heel with very neutral helm and pionted way higher than I expected with speed too! I was caught having too much sail but it was a good data point and I was impressed. I was also impressed with her not burrying her bow as the other boat would have had to deal with. I think in this case the higher initial stability with my competitor was the difference as they are different boats, I just needed more sail. BTW I weighed in at 36000 on the travel lift which by the way, are You familiar with what these mighty 46's really weighed after building. My interior is quite well built out with finished forepeak . However I added everything on board and came up with 2500 lbs which should put her at 33100. the yard said the travel lift was accurate , whatever that means?

As for my test I can do this on my 41 inside Angels Gate, a good place, I have a new North 3DL full hoist 100% blade and as I mentioned the low aspect also. This will prove quite interesting. The 41 is still under refit.
Navigating the Miami Nassau race is very important as tidal issues along with the Gulf Stream come to play especially as you near Great Issac. Im sure you know this well. Things will get much more intense if you have a North wind bucking the stream. The race is scheduled around mid Feb. With luck, I will have her there in spring of this year, although I will then have to haul her for hurricane season, while I am out here. I will send pics after refit is done.
 
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