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Cabin Soles

skridelbaugh

New Member
I am looking to purchase a 1986 Ericson 38. The sole is in terrible shape. I was surprised because of the age of the boat, and it has not been a live-aboard. The broker told me that sole deterioration was common on Ericksons because of the traxial construction which traps moisture in the bilge. This does not make much sense to me. Anyone with advice. I may purchase vessel because of low selling pricel. Although I am a wood worker I have never replaced a cabin sole on an Ericson. Anyone have any advice on replacing a cabin sole and what would make the sole deteriorate? Thanks. Steve
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
:D Lots (!) of past information is available on this subject. You need to search the message archives here, and at the message archives at Sailnet.com, and at the YachtList<http://www.xs4all.nl/~erkooi/YL/>.
The broker is telling you only a little bit of the story. Water can indeed be trapped under the sole pieces in an Ericson... and a Catalina, a Hunter, etc. etc. Remember, the broker may well be an honest person, but he/she works directly for the seller. You need a good survey, in any case.
:rolleyes: Heck, my 1981 Niagara used an frp interior liner that had areas where the teak&holly surface plywood sole was laying on a flat frp surface... I kept the sole varnished on all sides and it looked like new after my dacade of ownership.
Depending on how Ericson attached the sole in that particular model, you may only have to remove plugs and ss screws to take the sole pieces out... or you may find that they also put some sealant down on flat frp areas to further stick it down and "keep it from squeeking" when trod upon.
On our Olson 34, constructed by Ericson in 1988, all the sole pieces were screwed down and plugged. No edge trim pieces, and no adhesive used. They were in terrible shape when we got the boat in '94. I removed them (4 major pieces) and took em to a furniture stripping place where they and the cabin table pieces were dipped/cleaned. This removed a combination of enbedded dirt and old oil. We then used "Teaka A & B" to further lighter the appearance. I plugged all the old screw holes, drilled and countersunk new holes so as to leave the heads flush with the surface. I also used teak plugs on several interesting divots. Then about 6 coats of varnish were applied to both sides. While these were out, the bilge was cleaned of old globs of glass mush left over from construction, and the the bilge pump wiring renewed. Later I gel-coated the whole bilge white.
Now, the sole sections can be removed in minutes to get at the bilge areas for maint. I finally replaced the shiny/obnoxious SS screws with bronze square-drive screws this year so that, appearance wise, they are nearly invisible against the teak surface.
This upgrade really drives up the "ohh and ahh" factor when friends visit the boat.
I did indeed contemplate replacing the sole, but in '95 the two pieces needed would have cost me at least $150./sheet. There was no rot in ours, either, just neglect and zero care.
YMMV.
Good Luck and keep us informed of your progress,
Loren
:)
 

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
Replacing the sole can be hard or horrendous depending on how it is attached. On my 1985 32 Ericson, it appears to be glued down so removing it would be like ripping up a linoleum floor. However, I understand that some soles were screwed down. My sole suffered pretty severe rotting (sponginess) around the mast because Ericson masts cause alot of rain to come into the boat and run onto the sole. I fixed the probelm in a cosmetically acceptable way by drilling a pattern of 5/16" holes with a spur bit drill 2/3rds of the way trough the sole and then filling the holes with GitRot. Before the epoxy dried, I inserted teak bungs and shaved them down with a chisel. The sole is now solid as a rock and waterproof. To prevent future water damage, I routed a notch in the bilge cover nearest the mast and formed a channel with silicone to direct all water to the bilge. Seems to work. The TFG on my boat does not trap water and I have never heard this to be a problem. However, when I am away from the boat I leave the covers off the bilge sumps to allow air to circulate. Hope this helps.
 

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
Looking at the photos of the boat on Yacht World, I see what you mean about the sole. It needs to be totally replaced. But if the boat is in as good shape as the photos make it appear, the price is a steal. You are lucky I'm on the wrong coast!
 

Sean Engle

Your Friendly Administrator
Administrator
Founder
Mine too...

My 35-3 has lots of little black spots in/on the sole - and I would like to replace mine as well. I'm hoping I can just yank out the trim, and then the bungs and ss screws and pull it up without having to resort to all kinds of nasty removal. I also plan to diagram the entire sole (with brown paper) after the trim goes but before I pull the sole out - just as a precaution.

Once I get it out, I'm going to replace my bilge lines and shower sump line as a precaution, and put in a fresh water line to the engine to flush it out.

Well, that's the plan....we'll see how much of it gets done. Anyone have any idea what replacement wood costs?

//sse
 

Sean Engle

Your Friendly Administrator
Administrator
Founder
Oh...

Never mind about the cost - I just saw your comment Loren. Where did you get it from - where is a good place to find wood?

//sse
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Source for Teak and Holly

As I recall, I asked the boatbuilders at Schooner Creek Boatworks http://www.schoonercreek.com/
here in PDX for a ball park figure thru one of their suppliers. Since then I have heard of other folks in the same situation buying thin sheets of teak & Holly ply and epoxying it to a less expensive layer of regular marine ply. I was asking about the half or five-eights size, if memory serves.
You could also check with Cascade Yachts in PDX, http://www.cascadeyachts.com/index.html
That fancy veneer is darned pricey stuff, and you do not want any small errors in cutting it up...
Loren
 

jon newman

Member I
The Ericson 38 is about compromise, with the triaxial grid you get great strength, but the bilges are shallow, around the mast step which is an aluminium plate that stradles the grid, mounted to the the plate you have the mast shoe. The shoe is attached to the plate with four SS hex head bolts, the shoe is slotted so that you can center the shoe when stepping the mast, the spaces left are the only channels left for the water to go, but the slots are covered by the grid, On my boat the bilge covers that straddle the mast were rotted in short order. One because they were replaced once allready by a person who did not understand that the water sat stagnent on top of the mast step, and the boards also sat flat on the plate. The water has no where to go! and the boards were not recessed to allow a air space above the plate.
I had new boards made to incorporate this and applied a clear epoxy to seal them. Now that I have the mast off the boat , I have modified the plate, I had a machinest mill the center to match the cut out in the shoe, now all the water will drain into the bilge.
Note: when I removed the plate two of the four bolts holding the shoe to the plate broke off, another job for the machine shop.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Originally posted by Geoff Johnson
Good solution, but why not simply drill a hole through the plate into the bilge without removing the plate?
Now that I see where I was luckier than many of the rest of you when I refurbished our sole pieces, I agree and would even suggest that while the sole pieces are out for refurbishing/replacing you drill lotsa half inch drain holes in the FRP internal pan everywhere it is flat and could hold moisture. Then the bottom sides of the soles would stay drier.
Our Olson has big "floors" glassed accross the bottom of the boat that carry the load from the mast and keel bolts. These have 3/8 inch (approx) battens glassed flat on 'em for the sole pieces to screw into. I like my boat's construction better, but boy those E-38's are a good looking design!
All the best,
Loren
O-34 #8
:cool:
 

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
Replacing the sole is not an option for me as it is glued in place. However, water getting trapped in the TFG is not the problem on my boat, the problem is water running down inside the mast and then out onto the floor. I have cured the problem for the most part by constructing a moat around the mast base and channeling the water into the nearest bilge sump. However, it is not an elegant solution (and not perfect when the boat starts to rock or heal causing the water to slosh over the moat). Hence my question about drilling a hole in the mast step so that water inside the mast goes directly into the bilge without exiting the mast.
 

u079721

Contributing Partner
When I bought my E-38 I noticed that most of the water that ran down the inside of the mast went through the mast plate via the cut out for the coax cable. But a significant amount seemed to get into the groove that the mast section rests within, and after a good rain there was always water seeping out of this groove and wetting the surrounding wood. So the next time I hauled the boat I simply drilled four holes through this groove (and through the mast plate underneath) directly under the mast section to allow this water to get into the bilge directly. After that I have never had the problem again. I DO have to clean these weep holes annually though, as they fill in with muck from the cabin sole.
 

tdtrimmer

Member II
I replaced the cabin sole of my 1981 Ericson 38 a year ago. It required 2 1/2 sheets of material purchased at Peoples Lumber in Detroit. I coated both sides of the plywood with West System epoxy before cutting. This provided the teak with protection and reduced tearing by the saw blade. I used the old pieces as a pattern. The toughest part was lining up the holly stripes throughout the boat. I cut the panels in a different pattern than the original so I could fit the new floor under the existing furniture. I can provide you with further detail if you are interested. Once the pieces were cut and drilled, I coated everything again with West System epoxy. After installation, I applied two coats of Epifanes rubbed effect varnish. Looks terrific.
Tom

Originally posted by skridelbaugh
I am looking to purchase a 1986 Ericson 38. The sole is in terrible shape. I was surprised because of the age of the boat, and it has not been a live-aboard. The broker told me that sole deterioration was common on Ericksons because of the traxial construction which traps moisture in the bilge. This does not make much sense to me. Anyone with advice. I may purchase vessel because of low selling pricel. Although I am a wood worker I have never replaced a cabin sole on an Ericson. Anyone have any advice on replacing a cabin sole and what would make the sole deteriorate? Thanks. Steve
 

jon newman

Member I
Ericson 38 cabin sole

You have some very good advice here regarding the cabin sole, yes it is true that what gives this vessel great strength, triaxial grid system suffers from poor drainage.
The replacement of your cabiin sole will allow you the oppurinity to solve this design problem to a point, what you will solve is the damage that will occur if you not had this oppurinity top engineer a solution as described on this site.
 
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