Dumb questions about rigid vangs and topping lifts....

Hello All,
I have been following the threads on installing a rigid vang on an E38 with interest as I just purchased an E38 with a "soft" vang. Not knowing a whole lot about the advantages/uses of the rigid setup, and the removal/use of a topping lift I just have to ask....

1) I have a topping lift on my older boat as well as the new E38. After reading the rigid vang thread I am a bit confused. Are you supposed to disconnect the end of the topping lift and clip it to the pigtail on the backstay when the sail is up? I have always left the topping lift loose enough that it did not interfere with the action of the vang when tightened, leaving it to just flop around loosely behind the main. Hmmm, is this "incorrect", have I been committing some sort of sailing faux pas?

2) I am quite used to using the soft vang to shape the main on my "other" boat. The rigid vangs seem to be simply a solid/spring loaded assembly to support the boom at rest that telescopes out or in under pressure from a tackle setup to do exactly what the soft vang already does. So what exactly is the advantage to a solid vang over the topping lift, assuming you just leave the topping lift loose when the main is hoisted?

The E38 has a full batten Doyle main and the reason I ask about the topping lift and correctly securing it is I would assume that the full batten setup will make it more difficult for the topping lift to swing about. I would rather upgrade to a solid vang than deal with possible damage to the main by the topping lift or unclipping it and securing it to the backstay every time I hoist the main.

Forgive my ignorance but the E38 is a whole new world to me.... Thanks, RT

1) the old topping lift is removed from the boat when you have a solid vang. Letting it flop around when sailing is not wrong or right, but does raise the possibility of it's snagging on a batten pocket closure.
2) the advantage of the solid vang is precisely the spring return, that eliminates the former topping lift. This also provides up-force on the boom to shape the main in light air.
Nothing wrong with having a T.Lift; it just often causes more problems than it's worth. Note that this opinion is worth about .01 with weekend discount.

The deal with clipping the main halyard shackle to the end fitting on the boom after dropping the sail is to give the mainsheet something to tighten up against for furling, and keep the halyard away from chafing the mast, and... to keep someone from putting all their weight on the end of the boom and bending the section right at the vang fitting.

As stated before, if I had known how nice a solid vang was, I would have converted our prior boat.

Congrats on your new Ericson!


Loren in Portland, OR

boom kicker...

You might want to look into a boom kicker... It get's rid of the boom lift and lets you keep your current vang. I just adjust the boom lift enough to keep it out of the way, then open a beer!
http://defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|118|319697|311639|2611|311599&id=96754
Just one more option.
Chris

ps. it also eliminates the need to turn your hatch around

vang

RT,
Congrats on your new 38. You think you like the boat now, wait until you get to sail it!
Like Loren said the rigid vang lets you eliminate the topping lift and I suppose loose a little weight aloft. I like not having to tighten it to drop the sail or forgetting to loosen it when I hoist the sail.
You want to have a spring thats adjusted to just hold the boom and furled sail level but not so high that you are fighting the spring when you use the vang while sailing. Most have an easy adjusting pin for that. The lifting force on the boom also gives you more options for light air sail shape.

Make sure the boom fitting is stout, I have seen poorly installed ones ripped clean out of the boom.

Keep in mind that you cant pull the mainsheet in too hard when the sail is furled as the boom will drop (and my sail cover rubs the dodger).

If you need to sheet in hard say when in a rocking anchorage, you can always clip the main halyard at the end of the boom and then sheet in as hard as you like and keep the boom from swinging.
My mid cabin hatch opens facing aft, so if yours opens forward it will need to be reversed. My buddy just broke the vang in half on his J120 when someone left his hatch open and they gybed downwind.

Good luck with your new boat!

All points covered

Loren has made all of the important points perfectly for the solid vangs.

With respect to the Kicker vangs-which are also nice and it is true that with these the hatch should not need to be reversed. I see where the literature says you can remove the topping lift, but ALL of the boats in town that use the Kicker INSIST on using either the topping lift or at least the main halyard to support the boom while at rest-whereas with a solid vang the only reason to support the boom from above (with the main halyard) is to steady it at a rolling anchorage.

The Kicker owners I know get very worried is someone is leaning on the boom, and they do not believe the kicker will support the boom and sail (on the boom) by itself-it needs more support, and the solid vangs do not. It seems to do a great job of supporting and even providing some up force on the boom (when sailing) so you can open your leech in very light air-but beyond that, the local feeling is that is not strong enough to support the boom when the sail is down.

This is sort of second hand-since all the boats with Kickers I have sailed aboard use it as I describe-if some of you are really sure it can support the boom and sail without additional support from the TL or main halyard, please inform us!

Thanks,
S

We have a soft vang. However, our topping lift is set up permanently. It is adjusted to be slack when our full batten main is raised, and lets the boom drop a bit, so it's tight when the sail is lowered. We never adjust it. Now that it's combined with a Dutchman system, to drop the main; 1) lower the halyard 2) Use 4 sail ties (optional if shorthanded). 3)Put on sail cover at the dock

Dutchman

The Dutchman brings a different aspect to this situation-since it relies on the topping lift as an integral part of the overall flaking system. If using a Dutchman, a solid vang will still work, but you won't be able to "lose" the TL...
Cheers,
S