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Gybing the A-sail

Seth

Sustaining Partner
Hello folks,

This was posted on the Quantum site (may still be there) several years ago.

I did this back when we were first fooling around with A-sails on non-sprit boats.

The other method is to rig the sail as before, but the gybe is a dip pole gybe. The bowman has the lazy guy in his hands, and as the pole is tripped and lowered, the old guy will drop out, leaving the pole end clear so he can drop the new guy in. The tackline stays attached to the tack, but is left cleated with some slack-but not so much that the sail can get very far away.
This is 90% the same as a dip pole with a "normal kite", but the pit crew is actually switching the sail inside out-in this method you can't do the "outside" A-sail gybe-the clew must pass between the luff and the headstay-same as light air gybes on J 105's etc.

It takes some practice, but is quite slick once you get it down. I would try the "no pole" gybes until all are comfortable with it first. Also this is good for light-moderate air, but in heavy air it is much safer to do the outside gybe, so in those conditions lose the pole and do it that way.

Cheers!
 

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ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
Good stuff Seth! So the tack of the sail has the tackline and both guys attached right? The gybe you basically go to poleless, complete the gybe the redploy the pole? Is this how the AC boats do it?
 

Seth

Sustaining Partner
A-sails

Yes, Yes, and sometimes. The AC boats don't have normal poles-they are MUCH longer than J.

Often, on the big boats-which have EXTREMELY long poles (50% longer than J sometimes), this is not practical. They usually remove the pole from the mast, slide it back, switch the guys, and shove it back out on the other side of the headstay.

In fact, on Medicine Man, we were one of the first guys (20 foot J and 28 foot pole) to simply unpin the headstay and lift it over the pole and re-pin it!

Crazy, huh? This is another technique for these types of boats-remember the pole rarely gets far from the headsstay since the AWA is always so far forward..
 

escapade

Inactive Member
For What It's Worth

Being a bowman on a BayviewMac boat as well as bouy racing for 15+ years I might make another suggestion. Unless you are racing w/experienced crew that has PRACTICED gybing the kite, either sym or asm, it is far more practical and a LOT less hassle to douse the spinnaker w/sock, reset the pole (if used) or move clew to new side, and reset the spinnaker. You avoid a VCCF, keep the admiral happy, and continue on your journey quite happy! Not as fast until you factor in the time spent unwrapping the spinnaker from the headstay, taking said spinnaker to sailmaker to have torn area's repaired, time in divorce court, etc. Just my $.02 worth.
BTW Seth, the BayviewMac is July 15 next year which should put the ChiMac on the 22nd. I haven't confirmed that on Chicago's web site though.
Have fun & sail fast
Bud E34 "Escapade":cheers:
 

Ed Valente

Member II
A-Consideration

What is the advantage of tripping the lazy guy during the gybe ? Oddly, I was thinking about this the other day while stuck in traffic. I was considering attaching two foldable eyeletts to the outboard end of the pole for use with the assym. The idea would be to attach each guy to one, leaving the tack to be the only consideration during a gybe (from the foredeck perspective of course). What would be the disadvantages with this ? Funny, the things you think of when the mind wanders. No wonder Chicago traffic is so bad.

Ed.
 

Chris Miller

Sustaining Member
That's a great set-up!

I never would have thought of that... but it certainly makes perfect sense!
If I understand correctly, the tackline becomes a "leash" to keep the tack set while you do pole stuff. That's a great thing to keep in your bag of tricks. Definitely something you'd want the crew to practice in advance, but very effective.
Thanks!
Chris
 

Seth

Sustaining Partner
Thanks Bud!

Good input from Bud-but I'm not sure how many all -out race boats are using socks-other than some of the 2 handed round the world guys-but not many fully crewed Mac boats are.

But, on a similar note, many of us are now doing bald headed kite changes(in heavy air)I instead of peels-In this years' Mac, after that long DDW in the big air, we were approaching the turning buoy at Gray's Reef for the reach to the bridge and finish. Since it had been DDW, we had our .5 up, but even I was not up for a pole on the headstay beam reach in 30+ knots of breeze using the .5. The "mellow" approach prevailed, and as soon as we had the .7 rigged and ready with its' own sheet run, I had the guys drop the .5 into the hatch (keeping it behind the main and unloaded), unhook the guy, run it to the .7, and then hoisted the .7 on the same halyard. Time spent without a kite: less than 1 minute. Speed with kite: 12. Speed without: 10. Losing 2 knots for 1 minute was well worth the safety and lack of tension during the change, and we had the benefit of giving the halyard a quick inspection while it was down. More and more, bald headed kite changes are coming back into fashion for offshore racing for this reason.

Once the change was done, we rounded, put the pole on the headstay, took off, and crossed under the bridge in about an hour and 45 minutes!
Wild ride, and the .5 oz lived to fight another day!

Ed,

I may have confused you on that point-I did not intend to say to trip the "lazy" guy. What I meant was that the bowman has the NEW guy(what has been the lazy guy) in his hands, and the topping lift is lowered/tripped so that the "active" guy (which will become the lazy guy once it is no longer in use) is tripped from the pole. When the pole swings down through the bow he can put the NEW active guy in the jaws.

Then square back and carry on while on the new gybe. Since we are neighbors, get in touch directly if I have not been clear enough-OK?
Cheers,
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
Seth do all three lines: Tack and both Guys stay attached to the tack of the sail at all times or are you unhooking stuff from the sail? I was thinking all 3 stayed on the sail and you would snug up the tack during the gybe to relieve the guy, then do a dip pole to clear the headstay while flying the sail from the tack, then clip the pole into the new guy and pole back while relieving the tack line?
 

Seth

Sustaining Partner
Yes, yes, and yes

You are today's winner! 100% on your test!

That's how we roll!:devil:

Cheers,
S
 

escapade

Inactive Member
opps!!

Should have posted that reply in the other forum. On the Mac boat (and my boat) we don't use a sock. That was more for the cruising set. You make a real good point, though. It's better in a distance race to make sure your sets go cleanly even if they are a little slow. Easier to make up a couple hundred feet of distance on a set like you describe rather than run off for a mile or more trying to unravel a twisted chute or retrieve a kite flying from the masthead. All are fun to watch but it sucks to experience them. Especially true if your dealing with inexperienced crew. It's amazing how tangled a mess you can end up with if your not careful!
Have fun & sail fast
Bud E34 "Escapade"
 

Seth

Sustaining Partner
Well said and 100% on target

With you 100%. Looks like I may be free to do both Mac's this year-that would allow me to stay with Karma (or another 36.7) for the Chi-Mac, and go for the faster (read BIGGER) ride in the Bayview! BTW-since you are in Detoit (right?), I was wondering if you knew whatever became of Agressive II-the Bruce King 40' Bilge boarder (big sister to Terrorist and small sister to the 48' Hawkeye)..Super cool boat that lurked in your waters for many years-I would love to see it resurrected!

Hope to see you!
Cheers,
S
 

escapade

Inactive Member
Where is she?

I'm not sure where she would be. Their were several boats lost in a fire at Aggressive Marine several years ago. Lost part of the NA40 fleet and several other boats. Hope she wasn't there. I sail out of Bay City (Saginaw Bay) so I'm not real familiar with a lot of the Detroit/Lk. St. Clair boats.
You'll like the BayviewMac though. I've never done a ChiMac (yet) but the other guy's tell me that Chicago is more of a spinnaker run. The Bayview will get all your sails out before it's done. I think I did 14 or 15 sets one year. Put it up, take it down, put it back up, ...
BTW, are you going to be at the Strictly Sail in Chicago this year? I think we're going to try to make it.
Bud
 

Seth

Sustaining Partner
Thanks Bud

Yeah, I knew about the fire, but don't know if she was there..She is an aluminum boat, though..

Actually I have done several Bayview-Mac races-the last was in 2001 on PainKiller (3rd in Section-PHRF B)-and it is a good race-but I like the Chi-Mac better-more challenging from a navigator's perspective IMHO.

I'm pretty sure I will be there-might even give a talk-not sure yet. Most likely I will be helping the Beneteau guys out, but could be lurking around the the Quantum and Doyle guys as well.

If you like, get in touch the week before-it would be fun to meet any E-members for an informal get together..
Cheers,
S
 
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