ericson 29 suitability

[douglas]

I'm considering purchasing an ericson 29 1978. It has wheel steering, the cockpit is divided by the mainsheet traveler into 2 cockpit sections. The boat has upgraded 2 speed self tailing winches which are a bit forward of the wheel but I believe easy enough to assist singlehandling. Any opinions on this cockpit layout in regards to singlehandling/modifications needed to assist singlehandling or at least handling with "nonsailor" crew? Thanks.

Any other comments on a 1978 29 foot ericson. Has roller furling, newish 3 year old universal diesel, seems to be well maintained, running and standing rigging replaced last year. Only weak spot seems to be the lifelines and stantions for lifelines, stantions seem too rusty at bottoms and wobble a bit, single lifeline so that'll need to be upgraged, any idea how extensive/costly that would be? How does this boat sail? 4'4" draft.

Thanks in advance. Doug

[paul culver]

I bought a 1977 E29 this summer and I sail with my wife as crew but would feel comfortable single handing it. In addition to your self tailing winches and roller furling you might want to consider an autohelm. The boat is very easy to muscle around at the dock. I think I would want to get a good harness and tether if I was going foreward on the deck while single handing. As for the E29 overall, its a sharp looking and fast boat (as long as you keep the bottom cleaned) and a joy to sail. Go for it!

--Paul

[Joe Benedict]

It's a relatively easy boat to sail - I don't know what your are used to. I have self tailing winches and the wheel also. A lot is going to depend on how tall you are (don't laugh). I'm 5'8" and things are just out of my reach sometimes. I added a cam cleat with fair lead to the roller furler line. Makes it a lot easier to handle than trying to use just a horn cleat. Really helpful in a partial set or furling of the headsail. Still working on a better release for the main halyard rather than having it bang around before you set the main. You didn't mention a Lazy Jack - really helps when short handed. Best thing I did was change the Atomic 4 prop to one by Indigo. Docking is not the "experience" it was. I don't know if the prop is as much of an issue with the diesel.

[Lawdog]

I have owned a 1976 E29 for some 8 years and often singlehand her. I lead the lines to the cockpit and added a simrad autohelm (the best thing I ever did) as it frees me to trim the jib easier, adjust lines, grab a drink, use the head, etc., and it is particularly good with people on board who dont know sh#t about sailing, but get in the way. You ask the guests to grab a line and they look at you with a blank stare, so I click the autopilot and do it myself. I have the tall rig and adjustable backstay, and you should get an adjustable backstay as they make a huge difference on the 29, tightening it when going to wind. I also extended the rudder, as the rudder gets narrower as it gets deeper, and with the 4'6" draft, the more the boat heels, the less control you have--especially over 15 knots. Otherwise the boat is fast and dry, and feels much bigger than its size.
Neal

[Dave G]

I've had an 1971 E-29 for three years. Love the boat, sails great. My buddy has a Cal 29 which just isn't layed out as well, seems more tender and is not as fast as the Ericsson. I have an Atomic 4, which as much as people love their deisels, I have grown to appreciate how quiet and smooth running this little engine is. I have the tiller model which gives us a very big open cockpit with room for lots of freinds. I have singlehanded many times. I don't have roller furling (yet) or the halyards run aft (yet another project) which would be a big plus, but I find the boat very easy to handle by myself. For a boat this size I don't think you can beat it.

Dave Green
Bellingham Wa
E-29 Spirit

[Don Taugher]

Doug:
I sailed my 1978 (#610) for 18 years before getting a E38. Loved the boat and often sailed it singlehanded. I would recommend an inflatable vest and a water proof VHF to wear when alone. I wondered how I would ever get aboard if I fell over, at least with the handheld I could hail someone (hopefully). You will find the 29 to be very seaworthy and a dream to sail, although I would suggest you reef before the wind pipes up, the boat really gets tame with the proper amount of sail area exposed.

Your observation of the lifelines concerns me. The bases shouldn't wobble, and I thought the latter boats all had double life lines as standard. A marine surveyer should clear up any questions.

By the way, I have a E29 headsail listed in the "for sale" section, someone will get a good buy.

Happy sailing.

Don Taugher
E-38 Running Free

[Randy Rutledge]

I singlehand my 29 most of the time, I added two speed #42 winches in the aft position even with the wheel, and added tackle to the traveler to make adjustment quick and easier. I feel the boat is easier than most to singlehand. The boat is strong and stable, reef early and sail her hard she will love it. The stanchons are strong but single lifelines on my boat. The first time I took her out singlehand was in winds over twenty and she scared me a little but porved to be worthy of trust. if you balance the sailes and point highter when heading up wind in heavy air she will handle well. The rudder is overpowered by poorly timmed sails in heavy air, with proper trim you can sail with only a few degrees on helm.

[jkenan]

I looked to two other Ericson 29's before buying one this past April. Reason the other two failed: deck rot over more than 1/3 of the deck surface area. If the stanchions are wobbly, chances are water is getting into the deck. Get this boat surveyed, it will be best $500 you spend.

I agree with all assessments made above. After finding a sound hull, I upgraded many of the systems: Installed 2nd reef point in main, led all lines aft thru cheek blocks, organizers, and clutches, intalled H/C pressurized water, shower, sump, autohelm, and many A4 upgrades. My wife and I sailed it April 28 - May 8 from Rock Hall Maryland to Oriental NC. We were in the Palmico sound on our way to Ocrocoke in 30K+ winds (2nd reef was much appreciated), the day before the Nor'easter hit. We surfed 30 miles in 3 hours and 47 minutes! The boat was balanced and handled great, due to the reefing options employed and the heavy D/LWL ratio. Since then, I've done lots of singlehandling. I appreciate the shallow draft, rig height that allows me get under the bridge to moor it in a hurricane hole up the creek, and the spacious interior that allows three guys or two couples to cruise in comfort in a boat this small that is relatively easy and inexpensive to maintain.

Upgrades I'm considering:
Larger rudder
Chainplates (don't like the fact the OEM ones are glassed in)
New rigging

With these, I'd take this boat offshore.

Good luck.

John

[douglas]

Thanks for all the input thus far, this is a great site. I tend to take too long sometimes to make decisions,,,there is a 1984 25+ I like but it is uncomfortable behind it's wheel, makes my back hurt,,3'11" draft.
I like the 29 foot 1978 better, more comfortable cockpit and all around in better shape, draft 4'4". For a fairly beginner sailor is there a huge difference to sail/dock a 25 footer vs. 29 footer. My dock is in a canal, not a lot of other boats, fairly protected site with only the wind to contend with.
How far do I want to jump in? :) Shopping is sometimes the fun part.

Doug

[Loren Beach]

Interesting decision you face!
We went from a trailerable 20 foot sloop (sailed it 5 years) to a 26 foot racer/cruiser (sailed it 10 years), and now are into our second decade on a 34 footer. Each time we moved up, the boat we bought seemed *huge* compared to the one before... and after a very short time felt quite "normal"...
Go figure?!
:)
How you will adapt to docking and general close-quarters handling of a 29 footer is the key. Maybe you could take a lesson from a licensed captain? And, get Lots of practice! (Remember the cabbie's answer to the tourist wanting to know "how to get to Carneghie Hall?" "Practice, practice practice!")
:p
One observation about sailing the boat -- more length and displacement, within reason, makes a lot of chores easier. The boat is simply a more stable platform to steer and move around on.
Another observation -- There are about the same systems and problems on boats from about 25 feet to 30ish... My former 26 foot 4K displacement boat had almost every electrical and plumbing system that our present 34 footer has (except pressure water and an inboard diesel).
:rolleyes:

Best of luck on your purchase.

One Important Caveat: This advice is worth about what you paid for it. ;)

Cheers,
Loren in PDX
Olson 34 #8

[Seth]

While Loren's point about is generally true in life, I would argue that most of the advice you get here is worth more than what you pay....

It may not be 100% accurate in every instance-but there is a lot of good information here..especially from Loren!

S

[Randy Rutledge]

Doug you can call me for my very biased opinion on the 29. I moved from a Neptune 24 to the E29 and the first docking was much easier than the 24. I have even sailed into the slip with a friend at the helm and me on the sails. You can reach me at 770-574-5745. I would like to hear more about the 29 you are looking at but the 29 is an excellent boat.

[Emerald]

[snip] Best thing I did was change the Atomic 4 prop to one by Indigo. Docking is not the "experience" it was. I don't know if the prop is as much of an issue with the diesel.


Just wanted to add to Joe's thoughts on the Indigo prop. I put one on my E-27, and loved it.


Given that in some ways the E-29 is a larger version of the E-27, I found for sailing where I was the one doing all the work (or is that having all the fun playing?), I would often sit in front of the wheel and reach aft. This worked reasonably well for letting me steer, handle the main and handle the jib sheets. Takes a little getting used to (initially tend to turn the wheel oppposite direction), but I found it a convenient place to sit at times. I will note that I am taller at 6'1" than shorter.


-David
Independence 31
Emerald

[Joe Benedict]

Two things I neglected to mention. One, run the main halyard back to the cockpit. I don't have a real good picture of this but the attached older picture gives you some idea. The halyard (which is just coiled in the picture) runs through the block on the mast, the block on cabin roof, through a fairlead block near the stove vent, to the winch and cleat. I've seen a lot of setups that pepole still use the mast winch and cleat - apparently to get the sail real tight. I haven't found this to be an issue. Secondly, if you use a lazy jack, loosen it and have it tied to the mast somehow so it is out of the way when you set the sail - battons just love to hook on it - mine hooks nicely around the cleats on the mast. At some point during the sail you can redeploy the lazy jack.

[chasman39]

I have a 1974 E-29 and I love it. It sails very well is very forgiving and is exceptional in heavy weather. I also have roller furling and wheel steering. My experiance with single handing is limited but your winches are located in the same place mine are. I also have a second set of smaller winches used for the spiniker I route the sheets around the primary winches and then around the spiniker winches and tie the ends behind the pedestal. By doing this you do not loose the sheet when you tack. This has worked for me and I hope you enjoy the 29. Charlie (Peaceful Wind) Thousand Islands, NY

I'm considering purchasing an ericson 29 1978. It has wheel steering, the cockpit is divided by the mainsheet traveler into 2 cockpit sections. The boat has upgraded 2 speed self tailing winches which are a bit forward of the wheel but I believe easy enough to assist singlehandling. Any opinions on this cockpit layout in regards to singlehandling/modifications needed to assist singlehandling or at least handling with "nonsailor" crew? Thanks.

Any other comments on a 1978 29 foot ericson. Has roller furling, newish 3 year old universal diesel, seems to be well maintained, running and standing rigging replaced last year. Only weak spot seems to be the lifelines and stantions for lifelines, stantions seem too rusty at bottoms and wobble a bit, single lifeline so that'll need to be upgraged, any idea how extensive/costly that would be? How does this boat sail? 4'4" draft.

Thanks in advance. Doug

[maggie-k]

I own a 1978 E-29 and have been single handing it for the 9 years I have owned it. I have added ST28's near the helm as well , the furling line runs threw a clutch starboard. The stanchons are a bit on the week side and bend easily so gate braces were added. I replaced the life lines as well. An auto pilot is a must I use a loder navico now simrad wp3000. I did not move the main halyard aft as this would also mean the reefing lines would have to be aft as well to make reefing an easy affair. Rather I moved all reefing control lines and out haul threw clutches on the starboard side of the boom leading to the starboard halyard winch . The topping lift and main hallyard lead to the starboard winch threw another set of clutches . It is easy for one person to set a starboard tack go forward and reef.
I have sailed in conditions up to 55 knots and have never felt out of control on the 29. She's a sound boat. The only changes I am considering is to internalize the halyards and improve the traveler. Fourtunatle I am a rigger so this won't cost a fortune. As fo the back stay adjuster I would not reccomend one of a mast haed rig like the 29. Proper tuning with about 1/2 the mast depth precurve seems about right. Oh ya I use the old forward winches for a simple preventer / boomvang system.
Eric on Maggei-K

[Seth]

Eric,

I'm with you on having the reefing controls all together and fwd as you have them-I like the cleaner cockpit aft and less overall friction. I suppose there may come a time when I am not agile enough to go fwd, but that is a long way off, and if that happens, maybe sailing solo is not the best idea.

My only difference of opinion is your comment about the backstay-you are certainly correct that this very stiff mast can be set up with a pre-bend that matches the main well and such that it remains well supported over a wide range of conditions..BUT, you are going to have problems either with too much headstay sag when it gets breezy (if you set it up a bit loose) OR not enough sag in the light air if you set it up tight. Even cruising, this can have a very noticeable effect on performance at which ever end of the spectrum is not set up properly.

In light air, if you have the rig really tight, you will not point well, and you won't have enough "punch" in the front of the headsail(and you will be "slow and low")-and this is a biggie-those of us who make these adjustments frequently on boats so equipped can tell you it is a night and day difference. The reverse will be true in heavier air if you don't have enough rig tension..
So, a BS adjuster won't do a lot to help change mainsail shape because the mast does not bend much, but it WILL impact the headstay, and with it your performance..

Great post, and WELCOME to the site!

Seth

[maggie-k]

Seth.
I see what you are getting at with a backstay adjuster being used as a way to control headstay sag as apposed to mast curve, Good thought ! Yes it would work well for that , I would be carefull of putting excessive tension on the forward lowers especially if they are tensioned for mast precurve with low backstay tension. I never found a problem pointing in light air but I never had the chance to try using a backstay adjuster on the 29. In light air I usally switch to a 2.5 oz drifter which holds it's shape well. The cost of an adjustable backstay would be prohibative to most with the need of a couple trips up the mast ,shortening and swaging the backstay not to mention the price of the adjuster but I think I will look for an old one around the shop and experiment with it. Good thought Seth.
Eric

[Loren Beach]

Regarding the length of the backstay and maybe changing it for installing an adjuster... if the rig is over 15 years old just make this change a part of the standing rigging replacement that is due now. If relatively new, then perhaps you could shorten the backstay and use StaLoks or similar fittings.
The double-handle Johnson HandiLock might be a decent choice for a boat this size, maybe...

Loren

[Seth]

Good idea Loren.
Eric,

Not sure about the concern with the fwd. lowers with a loose backstay-I would worry more about the aft lowers if my BS was really loose-this could lead to an inverted mast...

In any case, whether the mast is set up straight or with some prebend (prebend is good in heavy air, rough water areas, since it will make the main flatter and help insure the mast never gets inverted from hitting big waves or having too loose of a BS), the adjustable BS will allow you to ease the rig and sag the headstay way off to help pointing and provide more power in lighter air, and when the breeze comes up, you can remove the excessive sag, which will also will help pointing-since there are different issues at play in higher winds, flatten the entry (removing some "power"), and finally it will limit the amount of movement or "bounce" in the HS as you bang into bigger seas. If you don't have enough tension to limit the sag and bouncing, you can experience stress fatigue in the terminations of the HS and/or toggle-which theoretically could fail after enough abuse...

Hope that helps!

S

[maggie-k]

Hi Seth my concern was the tension on the forward lowers when loading the backstay if the forward lowers have been preloaded for curve at a neutral position , The aft lowers would not be a problem, it's a very stiff mast for-aft . On a tapered fractional rig you can work wonders with and adjustable backstay but on a stiff masthead rig like the e-29 it pretty limited in comparison , I'm going to give it a go and see what happens. Great description of the effect of backstay tension Seth.
Your dead right about not wanting you mast to invert. Aluminium unlike stainless steel fatigues when brought past a zero point such as the straight position of a mast. This is one reason why many rigger insist on a bit of precurve as to invert the mast your first have to push threw the curve to straight , a very hard thing to do. It's the same reason aircraft parts are put together stressed so the never pass the zero point. As well as toggles failing I have seen more often clevis pins cut clean threw by the movement of sloppy stays .

I couldn't find a source for the Johnson handilock??

I would not recomend shortening a backstay as a DIY project. Stalock Norseman ect fittings require a degree of expertise to work properly Unless you are really confident don't do it and risk the loss of your stay. If you do use one tighten it and then open it up and make sure the button is done correctly I have seen many of these when on disassembly were not done properly and were held together by sikaflex and the grace of god. Best to take the stay to a rigging shop and have a swaged fitting put on .
This is a great site thanks to all for the great information.
Eric

[Loren Beach]

http://www.csjohnson.com/us/marine/page26.html

Here is the link for their backstay adjuster.
The less said about their web site design, OTOH, the better.
:o

Loren

[maggie-k]

Thanks Loren
Eric

[Seth]

Glad to help Eric! I hate to nitpick, but I still don't understand what you are getting at with your fwd lowers concern.

The BS adjuster on a thin frac rig is primarily for control of mainsail shape, and the running backs control headstay. If the boat was swept back spreaders and no runners (like the newer boats-beneteau 36.7, etc), then the upper shrouds do most of the work for the headstay, and the BS adjuster is primarily for the mainsail, but offers SOME small amount of effect on the hs as well.

On a stiff masthead rig like yours the BS adjuster is MOSTLY for HS sag, yet still gives a small amount of mainsail control in that you can get 1-2" of bend-which will make a difference in the sail shape-provided the mainsail matches the way you have the rig set up. But the biggest impact will be on the HS.

On bendy masthead rigs-even the newer 35's and 38's-certainly the RH 36's, it becomes more complicated. depending on how you have the rig tuned, in general the BS adjuster will bend the mast-which will flatten and depower the main as expected, and also tighten the HS..BUT-in rigs like this which can have 8-12" of bend, you get to a point where you have bent the mast so much that you begin to LOSE HS tension (imagine the "bow" of a "bow and arrow"-the distance between the top and bottom of the bow decreases as you pull back). To correct this, you will use the running backstays (which usually attach between the sets of spreaders-unlike frac boats in which the runners attach at the hounds) to restrict the amount of bend, yet allow lots of tension-this is how you can get a tight headstay, yet keep the main powered up when conditions dictate. You can think of it this way: the BS is used for headstay, and the runners are used to fine tune mainsail shape.

But I have digressed. Generally with a rig like the 29 (with fwd and aft lowers), the aft lowers serve to restrict bend, and the fwd lowers serve to ADD bend. Let's assume you have pretty full mainsail, so full that in heavy air you can't seem to get it flat enough, and you have set up the mast very straight. The solution is to ease the aft lowers and take up correspondingly on the fwd. lowers, which will induce some bend, which is called "prebend" because this is now a more or less permanent mast shape (unless you go adujst the lowers again). Lots of owners will just make adjustments to the fwd and aft lowers for the daily conditions: straight mast for light air and bent for breezy days.

Now, if you add a backstay adjuster to the mix, you want the fwd lowers set so that the middle of the mast cannot go aft of dead straight, and the aft lowers looser-so that the mast can bend as you add BS tension. The point at which the aft lowers become tight will be the limit of the amount of bend you can get (besides the limitations of having a telephone pole for a mast!). The looser the aft lowers, the more bend you can get, and vice versa.

I hope this was not too redundant, but I wanted to try and tease out what it is you were trying to say with regards to those fwd lowers. So, if I have not clweared anything up for you, please let us know again what it is you were concerned with.

Cheers,
S

[maggie-k]

Hey Seth it's great to someone as knowlegable as yourself on the list, Many thanks on the food for thought . I hope to talk with you in Sydney

Eric

[Seth]

hey-Glad to help!

Not looking too good for Port Sydney as of yet, but anything could happen.

Always open for questions,
S