Spinnaker Pole for E 38-200

I have been talking to an engineer/boat designer/boat builder friend of mine and we are going to build a pole for my E-38-200. He is building one for his 30 footer that he races. We are going to use carbon fiber and vacuum bag it. I am trying to decide on a proper diameter and then a wall thickness. Would like to do it with 3.5" but may end up going to 4" as I could reduce wall thickness and maybe end up with a lighter pole that is just as strong. What diameter is everyone else using on the 38, assuming a length of 16.25'? We will probably need to come up with a mandrel as the 3" pipe we had used has an OD of 3.5" and if we want to go to 4 we'll need something bigger. Thoughts???

I don't want to rain on your parade, but is saving some money worth a possibly underdesigned spinnaker pole? A well-known sailor was recently killed on Long Island Sound when his spinnaker pole broke (and it was presumably a commercially made pole):

"In May, American Jamie Boeckel was lost overboard in the annual Block Island Race on Long Island Sound, U.S.

Boeckel was knocked unconscious and thrown from the bow when the spinnaker pole broke during a routine sail change. A crewmember jumped in and managed to hold Boeckel for a few minutes before he slipped away from his grasp and was drowned."

http://edition.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/sailing/07/04/sailor.death.ppl/

Didn't see the part where the guy got killed by the pole breaking but this is exactly why I dont want to buy a commercially made one. I know for a fact that I can build one stonger than the forespars. May not be as light but will definately be stronger. In racing with a friend on his 30 foot Mount Gay boat we have broken all sort of commercially made "Bullet Proof" carbon, kevlar reinforced, aluminum, you name it poles. The only one that has lasted is the one we built ourselves a few years ago. Material cost is not bad either. It takes time to get set up and thats where you pay when you have someone else make one. I can get the pole done for between 250-400 depending on how we do it. Ends are another 250. Forspar wants around 1500 last I checked and that was for one we snapped in 25kts of breeze.

Have you looked at the Forte poles sold by www.riggingonly.com? They are woven onto the mandrel and come with a breakage guarantee (although I havn't read the fine print.)

they look nice but still run more than $1,000. Definately look stronger than the forespar.

Poles

If you are that confident... I think you can squeeze by with 3.5". I think the commercial poles for this size are 4"-certainly not more. Easy enough to check-look at your Forespar or Hall Rigging quote and see what dia. they call for.

The only time I have had one fail was the result of a VERY inexperienced crew sticking the pole in the water while running deep (and "death rolling"). They had no clew (clue) about releasing the foreguy when this happens, so the pole broke. They also broke the spare alum. pole exactly the same way an hour later. Unless seriously abused to the point any pole will break, I think they are plenty strong...

Let us know how it goes-I am certainly interested to see...
cheers,
S

Maybe build a second pole?

Hey Ted,
If you go ahead with the 3.5 inch version, let me know. Maybe I could buy your first "practice" model!
I want to replace the overweight aluminum *pipe* that the first owner sourced for the aft radar pole. (1/4 inch wall...)

This upgrade is not at the top of my to-do list, but could move up quick if an economical carbon pole were to become available...

I believe that I can easily fab up the top plate-and-socket-fitting out of cloth and honeycomb board for the scanner.

Best,
Loren in PDX
Olson 34 #8

I will let you know for sure how its goes. Best bet right now is that this will be a fall/winter project. My friend who is really good at this stuff is working on modeling the anticipated loads so we can determine what size will be most appropriate. Obviously if we go with 4" we can decrease the wall thickness but 4" could end up heavier. There is a breakeven analysis (no punn intended) that will tell us the most efficiect form to use, one that will maximize needed strength and minimize weight. We are also discussing a few different construcion techniques, one using a mandrel and cloth.Another using a dfifferent type of carbon material that has the fibers aligned in a different fashion. We are also discussing the use of an inflateable mold that could allow us to make tapered ends and then deflate the mold after curing. Then there's oven curing, the vacuum bagging process, resin infusion... A lot of work for a pole but the my friend is using this project to test a number of other ideas he has for constuction techniques. He's an engineer who designed and built a Mount Gay 30 (box rule boat) a few years ago here in Annapolis that we race. He is having built a new 33' boat of his design www.mountgay30.org (lifting keel, cartridge type rudder, water ballasted...) by Custon Composites in ME.

Hey Ted,
Does this mean we're going to be seeing a new "Stitch"??
Still trying to catch up on sleep from gov cup.
Chris

The new boat is almost finished. It is being built for a guy in Phili who says he plans to race it on the chesapeake. My friend Dan just finished the specs for the keel bulb. The already made the fin (carbon) and I believe Mars is going to do the bulb. Carbon rig has been ordered but I think the owner is light on cash and is taking his time to finish the boat. We were hoping to take it to Key West this year but it looks like the boat is not going to be ready until spring 06. You did Gov cup? Jeeze I hear 70 boats dropped out and 3 got hit by the lightning. I was at my house watching the light show. Thats the most lightning I think I have ever seen. Heard there was nooooo breeze. What time did you get in and did you do it on your boat?

Check out this link...

Hey Ted,
We finished after 19.5 hrs on the course. 12th in class out of like 28 starters.
check out the following link and go to the "this week in sports pictures" slideshow to Picture #8 to see a shot taken from the boat I was on, Foxtrot Corpen. The photographer was from Reuters and was on the boat at the request of race management. Pretty sweet shot.
MSNBC.com Sports
Chris

Wow 19.5 hrs. Thats a long one. I recall us doing it in 22 a few years back when there was nooo breeze but we had enough beer to keep us from dropping out. Cool photo btw.

Annapolis

I had the pleasure of sailing against Foxtrot Corpen several times in recent history-I sailed on Wild Onion in your fleet 2 years ago at the Fall regatta (We were 1st or second that year), annd again last spring (a year ago)-we did not win, but were up there-IIRC F.C. did VERY well in that spring regatta!

I enjoy sailing in Annapolis very much!

Fair winds,
S

Let me know if you're coming again...

Yep, they did really well this spring- I wasn't on the crew then, but it was very exciting for one of our club boats to have such a good showing. Let me know if you are doing any of bay stuff this fall or next spring. It would be fun to chase each other around a OD race!
Chris

Foxtrot

I met the owner at the Fall Regatta-very nice guy-he might remember me. Please send my regards-I was "the Doyle guy from Chicago" sailing on Wild Onion-that is how he might remember..
Cheers,
S