Genaker Gybin' Follies

Follies, indeed

Keith,

Sorry to hear about your troubles. You are 100% right that using a halyard below the hounds (intersection of mast and forestay) for ANY spinnaker will cause problems when gybing..

In fact, a true spinnaker halyard is by definition above this point, and I think what is happening is that you are using a Jib halyard for your gennaker...

IIRC, most of the modern E-boats have a 3 halyard set up-one is on centerline just below the headstay (primary genoa), and there are 2 others-one one each side and slightly higher (top of sheave should be close to even with or above the hounds) and function as "universal" halyards-they work as secondary genoa and/or spinnaker halyards. They are high enough that when gybing a spinnaker they can ride over the headstay with minimal or no friction, so you can either gybe a gennaker outside or do a normal conventional kite gybe with no problems..

What is your halyard configuration? If you have a 4 halyard setup, then the 2 outside halyards are spinn halyards, and the 2 inside ones (which are lower) are strictly for headsails.

So, I'm curious as to how you ended up using this particular halyard for that sail-but you did the absolute right thing-considering.

Standing by,

S

Seth,

Do you mean 3 halyards total, or 3 on the forward side of the mast, plus the main halyard?

My boat, as I got her from the previous owner, only appears to have 3 halyards. The main halyard, the genoa halyard, and what I presumed was the spinnaker halyard. The main & genoa halyards are internal (within the mast) & what I used for the spin, which is external to the mast attaches below the hounds. There is another slot in the mast for another internal halyard, but nothing is there. Perhaps it was lost/removed by a previous owner. I wish I could replace it, but that will probably have to wait until the mast is down. I can also remove my topping lift next time I am up the mast. It would be nice to add a halyard there if that provides more room, but that would be from the aft side of the mast.

Though the rig is fractional, it would seem that there would be an advantage for light air to use a masthead halyard & an even bigger asymetrical chute, though it would be tougher to handle. In the mean time, we will be content with using our existing gennaker with inside gybes. We will head out to Santa Cruz Island in 2 days (Sunday, 8/7) for about 5 days of R & R. I am sure that we will find fair winds for reaching or running with that gennaker when we return.

Keith
Ericson 33, hull # 24

Strange, but true..

Keith,

I'm sorry-I was thinking masthead rig, but 2 things come to mind from your post...

I am very surprised that the 33, which is the Holland boat only has 2 forward internal halyards-during my time there, they had 3 forward and one main halyard-all internal. So, you are saying that there are slots for 2 forward internal halyards, both below the hounds, and that's it?? Hard to imagine as this would mean the boat had zero provision for spinnaker halyards-we always built the masts for the 'race" boats with slots and sheaves for 3 halyards (forward)-two of them (the outside/higher ones) could be used for headsails or spinnakers, since they were even with or above the hounds, and the center one was always for the primary headsail. Sounds like you just have 2 parallel slots just below the hounds-by definition they are ONLY for headsails (eg-below the hounds). Please confirm back with me that this is the case.

The second issue is that if someone later installed an external halyard (a shame on a boat like this), they actually just gave you another jib halyard. Or put more clearly, they did not know that a spinn halyard MUST be above the hounds..

Your simplest choice is to move the external block to a point about 4-6" above the hounds. This will give you a functional spin halyard, at least.

For this, you will have to go up the rig. It is very possible to run the second jib halyard (a good idea) without dropping the rig. Go up on the main halyard, and when you get to the hounds, drop a tag line with some fishing weights crimped on the the end (you could use small washers, too). By hand, you can coax the tag line (something similar to lifeline netting-very thin-about the diameter of kite string-or slightly bigger) over the top of the spare sheave and then let it fall down inside the mast until someone on deck can see it passing the cutout near the deck. Reach in with a coat hangar or other tool, and pull the tag line out (obviously the length of this line must be about the same as a halyard-or almost. You can come down from "up there" now.

Now, you have a tag line run instead of a halyard. It is actually very good practice to have these lines run in spare slots-so that anytime you have to rig a spare halyard you can do the next step:

Tie and tape the end which EXITS the masthead slot to the END of the new halyard. Then pull the tag line from the bottom cutout, pulling the halyard up, over the sheave, into and down the mast, and finally out the cutout.

Care must be taken when you join the halyard to the tagline so that the joint is not too fat to go over the sheave-it WILL bind as it gets there, and it must be a strong enough joint to hold up to the extra pressure you will need to "tug" it over the top.

A bit off topic, but I think you are headed this way eventually.

Please confirm your configuration as described, and good luck!

S

Seth,

I will have to look at the mast at or near the hounds to see what slots are there. I don't know, to be honest. The empty slot I refered to earlier is at the bottom of the mast near the gooseneck & I am just not sure what there is near the hounds. I will be at the boat tomorrow & I will take a look at it with the binoculars. If I can get a WiFi connection at the marina I will reply again tomorrow. Otherwise, it may be the following weekend before I can do so, since we will be at the island all week.

Everything you said makes sense & I am intrigued at the possibility of adding/replacing the halyard with the stick up. I seem to recall a conversation talking about using a length of chain......wheel pedestal chain or bike chain, to use as the weight to drop the line down the mast.

Thanks for all the terrific input!
Keith

slots

No worries, Keith!

The empty slot you see near the gooseneck is an "exit" slot, or cutout, and is where another internal halyard (or spinn. pole topping lift) would exit the mast. I imagine you have a similar pair on the other side at nearly the same height for you genoa and main halyards (probably 2 exits on one side and one on the other-if you only have three. My point was that I would expect to see these exits slots for the main, and 3 halyards (fwd), and another for a pole topping lift-even if none of this is fitted.

But I could be mistaken (it happened once before)-and the only cutouts or slots on the mast are for the halyards or other control lines which were ordered with the boat..They are quite easy to do in the field-any rigger can cut more exit slots...

By all means check it out, and if you send me an email at: sethtec@aol.com, I will reply with a phone # and we can chat directly if you think it would help you.

Cheers, I'm off to Cape Cod in the am for a week with kids-and doing some small boat racing-gotta go back to the roots! I will have my email and phone on all week(working vacation)..
Fair winds,
S

halyard slots

Seth,

I hope you had a good time sailing on Cape Cod. We had a fine time on our cruise around Santa Cruz Island, though we could have used more wind.

I looked at the hounds on my boat & took shots from the dock. I hope they do it justice. The starboard slot seems to be occupiedf with the furled genoa & the port slot is open. I could probabbly add (or replace) a halyard there which could be used for our gennaker. Is there a center slot also? Is it filled with a halyard also, is it supporting the furler? Am I missing something in my understanding.... I think it is very likely thatI don't completely see the picture, but I am only certain of one halyard in use up there.

Thanks,
Keith

Halyard slots

Thanks for the shots, Keith! Good job. I am relieved to see exactly what I expected (for the most part): the 2 exit slots on each side and above the headstay are what are normally considered to be"universal", or sometimes "wing" halyards. They would serve equally as spinnaker halyards and secondary genoa halyards (normally when racing, you begin with the genoa on the center halyard, and if a headsail change is needed, one of these halyards is used). For spinnakers, they are located properly so the halyard can ride up and over the headstay during gybes-so it can be raised or doused on either side.

Now, come the question I still can't be sure of. With this halyard "box" (as this assembly was called at the factory), there wasa usually another slot cut into the mast just below the headstay and on centerline-which would serve as the primary genoa halyard. I can't be certain, but it looks as though there is something just above the external halyard block (still can't get over that installation), and also in the other photo it apears just above the upper furling drum-again on the mast...It possibly could be an anchor point for that block, but it sure looks like a center halyard slot to me.

So, I guess the answer is to check it out-if you have the empty slot, and when you want to do some racing, put the genoa halyard there and fill out the 2 side halyard slots with good halyards that can serve equally as genoa or kite halyards.

If there is nothing there, and you don't want to add a slot(very easy to do, actually) you can just get by with the 2 halyards-one of them can be used for the genoa, and the other for the spinnaker. With the furler in use, it is really enough, since you won't do sail changes per se-just up and down with the spinnaker. You have zero need to that external halyard-except maybe as a topping lift for the spinnaker pole-if you go that route, but it should NEVER be used for a spinnaker.

Does this help at all? Hope so..
Cheers,