Battery Monitors

[ted_reshetiloff]

Anyone have recommendations for these? I am a big fan of Xantrex stuff and an bidding on a link 10 on Ebay now but I know they are not making it any more and they now have a unit called the XBM. I dont have an inverter but was still considering the Link 1000 or 2000 units. I dont really need to monitor my starting battery and my house batteries are parralled into one bank. I like that they can give info in amp hours as opposed to a simple voltmeter. These units can be pricey though. So what is everyone using if anything and what have they found works well?

Thanks as always,

Ted Reshetiloff
E 38-200 Sovereign Nation

[mark reed]

I've got a Link 2000 which was installed by the PO. Works great. I like being able to monitor amp-hours, and I use the inverter much more than I thought I would.

[ted_reshetiloff]

What brand/size inverter do you use? Is it a zantrex unit? I wondered if you could use a non zantrex model with the Link 2000 monitor.

[mark reed]

I've got a Heart Freedom 10 inverter/charger. Not sure what model is equivalent now that Heart has become Xantrex.

[ted_reshetiloff]

IIRC the Link 2000 also serves as a controller for the inverter correct? Do you find the Link 2000 very usefull in its relationship with the inverter or is it just a nice extra? I guess what I am getting at is that I may add an inverter down the road and wonder if it makes sense to spend the coin now for the Link 2000 or not? What exactly does the link 2000 do for the inverter?

[Geoff Johnson]

I installed the Link 20 which is great (although you can drive yourself crazy trying to set it so that it accurately tells you how many amp hours you have left). Now I use it only to read voltage and amps in/out. Once you install one of these units, you quickly find out how crappy the OEM setup is and end up spending more money on overhauling the alternator and regulator. Also, Link, now Xantrex, makes you buy a minimum of 25 feet of the harness when all you need is a couple of feet. I think you can buy it by the foot at www.jrenergy.com.

[rssailor]

Ted,
Link 10 would work fine for monitoring the house as far as voltage and amps. A link 1000 or 2000 gives you the ability to control any freedom inverter unit as far as telling it to charge the batteries or turning the invert function on or off. The inverter control/battery monitors give you the best of both worlds. Blue Seas makes a very nice unit that will give you both a digital voltmeter and amp meter all in one unit as well. Good luck. Ryan Ericson 25+ Moonglow

[valentor]

Ted;

Your system (if I recall correctly) is very similar to mine. I used a Link 10 to monitor the two parallel 105 AH AGM batteries and it has been working flawlessly for years. The only monitoring I bother with for the starting battery is a permenently installed analog voltage meter. As long as the un-loaded average is more than 12.5 volts, it seems to just keep working - year after year. This starting battery was installed in 1998 and still started the Atomic4 on the first cranks this Spring.

For AC power, I added a Xantrex 1000 Watt Inverter. It draws it's power directly from the house bank (through a 100A breaker with #2 wires). Even with a 210 AH battery bank, we run the engine for big loads (like power tools or the 750 W microwave).

The biggest advantage of the Freedom Inverters is that they function as inverster AND as chargers. These units were very expensive a few years ago, but now the 10 and 15 Amp units seem reasonable.

I can highly recommend the Link-10. Also, I had no difficulty setting it up the first time - just followed the instructions and it did everything it was supposed to do.


Fair winds and calm seas;


Steve

[Loren Beach]

I am finally (!) getting closer to installing my amp hour meter and have a question about just where to stick it...
:p

My 1988 factory panel has two analog meters now, a volt meter with a switch for reading battery bank 1 or 2, and it also has an amp meter.
It looks like I could just replace one of these old analog meter faces with the new round-face amp hour guage.
But, which one would you all consider most expendable?
:confused:
The present amp meter seems to be measuring a small shunt mounted on the back of the switch bus on the panel, since it responds to various 12 volt loads.

What have you other electrical wizards done to your Ericsons and Olsons??

I could bore a new hole in the lovely teak face of the cabinet, but am a wee bit reluctant to do this...
:rolleyes:

Thanks again for the help,

Loren in PDX
1988 Olson 34 Fresh Air

[Guy Stevens]

Your new one has that function too, so why keep the old one?

No reason to have two that do the same thing.

The Volt meter is always the analog old fashioned fall back for the electrical system. Keep it as a backup, and get rid of the analog amp meter, they are pretty useless anyway.

Guy
:-)

[Geoff Johnson]

I have a different boat, but I installed my Link 20 on the fiberglass just below the 12 volt panel at the nav station (probably about where your head was on your recent trip).

[ted_reshetiloff]

Finally installed my Link 10 this weekend. I mounted it underneath the chart table where there was an old battery switch I had removed. I agree with the above post though, I would ditch the factory amp meter and keep the volt meter. Volt meter is a good standby as mentioned above. The amp meter will tell you how much you are consuming but not how much you have left...

[TMB]

It appears you have already made your choice. The best battery monitor I have seen is made by Ample Power. They have a website you can check out. Ample Power was recommended to me by the only ABYC Certified Electrician in Northern California.

Just FYI.

[Tom Metzger]

Ample Power was recommended to me by the only ABYC Certified Electrician in Northern California.

I just looked and there are about 50 ABYC certified marine electricians in California.:o

I have always liked my Link 10.

[Loren Beach]

After a few days of futzing around with wire routing...
the actual installation proved to be easy. I did have to resort to reading the instructions, though. FWIW, I have the instruction booklet, which is in rather small print, saved as a PDF. I enlarged the "install" pages and printed them out full size with their drawings; this was a great help.
Someday we need to replace the old factory cabling to the house panel and do some re-routing... but for now I added an 18" segment from the common ground point on one "ear" of the bell housing to the new shunt and thence the existing wire goes back to the panel. The pair of 2 amp in-line fuses are about a foot from the pos. battery terminal rather than the 7" the installation instructions want, but some compromises just seem inevitable in dealing with the physical limits of boat stuff...
:rolleyes:
I used the factory-suggested twisted wire bundle and realize that it is over-priced and contains a few un-needed wires... but I had a rebate check from We$t Marine to use up at the time... :nerd:
(If doing it over from scratch, I would probably get out the drill and "roll my own" twisted pair and save a few bucks.)

Within the limits of eye ball comparison with the factory analog volt meter, the two readouts are very very close. Ditto with the little needle on the former amp guage. The existing volt meter with its double-throw switch still works as before, FWIW.

So far, with "calibration" only to change the amp hours from the default 200 to the approx 240 in our particular house bank of batteries, it is in a sort of personal test mode -- i.e. I shut off the battery charger circuit on Sunday afternoon and am watching to see how many AH the refer will draw it down over this week. As of yesterday, and about 24 hours, it showed 44.x AH of drawdown.
If anyone is interested, the little Frigoboat unit shows about 3.8 to 4.0 amps draw when compressor is running. Refer wise, so far so good.

We also want to be sure our 4+ year old house bank (pair of of T-145's) is in good shape to take off for a week or two.
Vacation departure coming up soon...
:)

Picture of the new installation with the displaced amp guage on the nav table, is attached.

Cheers and cold beers,

Loren

[Shadowfax]

Nice install! Wish I had thought of that location. When the Link reads the AH the defult setting is I think something like use in 4 mins. Change that setting to something much longer to get a good feel for what you are really burning.

I love my Link 10 and owe it all to Tom Metzger who explained its virtues to me years ago.

[Tom Metzger]

I love my Link 10 and owe it all to Tom Metzger who explained its virtues to me years ago.

Paul - Cool it! ;) People are starting to talk about us.

The time setting is for integrating (averaging) the amount of time left at the present discharge rate. I prefer the short time for two reasons. First, the time left is dependent on the amp hours the battery is down, not the current usage, and second is that I want a quick indication that the battery is charging. I could very easily do without this reading as it adds little real information.

[rwthomas1]

Very nice work! Looks factory.

Now if we could just get Xantrex to make the Link 2000 control another inverter than the Freedom series they would have a customer. If I go the inverter route I want pure sine wave. If the bucks are spent why compromise, eh?
RT

[CaptnNero]

Thanks Loren, I've been thinking about the best place for my new ABM unit. Now I know !

[QUOTE=Loren Beach
...

Picture of the new installation with the displaced amp guage on the nav table, is attached.

Cheers and cold beers,

Loren[/QUOTE]

[Loren Beach]

Sigh...
Sometimes I feel like one of the less-educated followers of Ned Ludd. But, first the good news : our house battery bank appears to be in good condition. (Two Trojan T-145's, about 4 years old.)
Having run the boat on that bank (no shore power charger) since Sunday afternoon until noon today, Thursday, to power the refrigeration and some incidental use of lights, fans and the water pump while purging the 38 gallon tank, I started the cold diesel M25XP with no drama at all, off that same battery bank.
:)
The new meter was showing about 12.25 volts today, and we started out this little draw-down exercise at about 12.8. A friend did observe that it went down to about 11.8 when I used the glow plugs for 10 seconds and further dropped to 10.8 for a split second when the starter turned over. The starter turned briskly, FWIW.
The cockpit instrument panel immediately show almost an even 60 amp charge on the analog meter, which is max for the stock Moto alternator.
Now the other news: no amps were showing on the AH meter going back in. :confused:

Since my friend has the same meter on his similar engine in his Ericson, he asked me some simple questions about my install.:rolleyes:
(He did not call me an idiot, but there was a sort of "look" in his eyes...)

Like, was any other cable going to the neg. side of that battery? Hmmm. I could see, after a bit of dialog, where Big dummy Me had done an incomplete installation!

I write of my short-sighted-ness only because a lot of you have the same engine and basic wiring layout in your 80's-era Ericsons and Olsons, and you should avoid the tunnel-vision problem that led me astray.
The factory 1-2-All switch has both red #1 cables from the "house" and "start" batteries. They never called them that when the boat was built, though. The equally-large neg. (black) cables from both batteries go to a 5/16 bolt on the port side of the bell housing, beside the motor mount bolt. That common ground point also has the #4 black cable coming from the "house" DC distribution panel.
Where I went wrong was in focusing only on the House distribution panel power usage and not realizing that the so-called house battery bank was not isolated to only the new shunt I was installing.

Mea Culpa. What I did was add a short piece of #4 black from the common ground bolt to the shunt, which was mounted nearby in the engine compartment, and from the shunt the existing #4 black cable goes over to the house distribution panel. It works great for measuring volts and amps for that panel, but cannot (as is obvious now even to me) read what goes into the battery in the form of charging.
:nerd:

Vacation starts very soon and adding the shunt poses no harm that I can see, but I do need to change the DC neg. to show everything going/entering that "house" battery bank. The AH calculation cannot work the way it is now -- the AH reduction just keeps going.

And that leads to a question: If/when I do that, will the stock #4 cable to and from the panel carry the glow plug and starter amperage OK when this "house" bank is used for emergency starting??
(With the stock factory system, the cable runs for the starter motor are short and are all big fat #1 cable.)

This should have occured to me during the wiring install, but I was focused on the house panel and did not see the now-obvious charging by-pass I allowed.

"Two steps forward, one back."

Too much technology for me...
It must be time to go out and take a whack at a knitting machine! :devil:

Loren

[Tom Metzger]

Loren - The shunt MUST be inserted into the 1/0 black wire between the house bank and the engine ground point (at least it's 1/0 on the E-34, E-32, and E-35-3). If the house and start batteries use the same negative wire going to the engine ground point then the shunt has to be placed so only the house bank current goes through it. In other words, you may have to rewire the negative connections on the two banks to accomplish this.

The attached sketch, which was drawn for a different purpose, shows where the shunt has to be wired in for either battery if they have a common negative connection to the engine. Most likely, it would be easiest to eliminate the jumper between the batteries and run a separate wire from the disconnected battery to the engine.

The engine power (starter, glow plugs, pump, blower, and instruments) does not go through the #4 wire to the distribution panel. It comes off the battery switch.

I hope this helps.

[CaptnNero]

Tom,

Thanks for the clarification. I have an XBM unit that I was about to install. I started making some drawings of existing cabling and what I needed to make it work. Now I've got your clear cut directions to lean on.


Loren - The shunt MUST be inserted into the 1/0 black wire between the ...

[vbenn]

When I acquired E380 #22 last year, it was equipped with a Link 10, and a Heart Inverter. The inverter is great and I expect to use it more frequently now that we have a new house battery bank of 4 Mastervolt AGMs under the starboard settee. It took awhile before I began to understand the Link. It's a useful monitor for the house bank, but is not giving me accurate data on AMPs because the start battery is also connected via the selector switch. The Link 10 is intended as a one bank monitor. A separate Link product is available to monitor 2 banks.

Vince Benn
Wild Blue

[stuartm80127]

I just rewired from the batteries to the engine, installed a Link-20 and a dual circuit plus switch from Blue-Sea on my E27. Now have a starting plus house circuit. I run a small inverter but didn't feel compelled to add in a switch for it by buying a link 2000.


I chose the Link-20 to monitor each battery because on a previous Boat I installed a Link-10 and was very pleased with it's monitoring of my batteries though the setup process took a little getting used to. The switch quality of the Link-20 doesn't seem as nice as the link-10. Best to epoxy the cable sheathing to the back of the link-20 so that you don't accidentally pull any wires from the connector. I bought some high quality cat-5 network cable (four pairs), tinned the ends and used that to run about 20 feet between my batteries and where it is mounted near the switch panel.

Stuart

[wurzner]

I have an older Heart Inverter EMS 1800 Charger/Inverter 1800 Watt/65 AMP charger. It is a very old modified sine wave that is about the size of a shoe box, but a little thinner and perhaps sligtly wider. My batteries are old (2000) and per Guy's thread about batteries, would most likely be in great shape still but they went dry while the boat was up for sale. I added water and did 2 equalization cycles (the EMS 1800 has that feature) and they lasted for my 16 day trip no problem. I have a cruising equipment AMP-Hour +2 monitor which I believe heart acquired and turned into their link 20 system. It shows voltage for both banks, amperage being drawn, charging voltage and amperage per bank/both banks, and remaing battery capacity. I don't use the remaining battery capacity at all since I don't know what my actual Ah capacity is given the old batteries. Using battery voltage and Ah consumption, you can pretty much figure out when to charge or change banks. Having he equalization capability is great though. I would have purchased 4 6V batteries if the equalization charge didn't bring them back a little. To do a crude acid test like Loren, I used the microwave to see the hysterisis on the batteries and they were fine for the trip as mentioned...even ran my wifes 1500 watt hair dryer one day. I would typically never do that without running the engine, but was curious to see what the inverter could handle. In principal (historically), I agree with Rob about a true sign wave. After seeing how it worked on my microwave though, I would NEVER go with a true sine wave now since the microwave performance was great! Microwaves performance deteriorates significantly (read a factor of 2~3X) if they do not get a could sign wave. I must say, my old invertor must have a good modified sign wave since I didnt' notice it. The difference being about 3~4 times the size and weight. None the less, true sine waves are more efficient and than likely reliable since they are basically big wire windings with much less electronics.

Good thread and just thought I'd add my .01 cents to it. Either way, I love the inverter and the Ah monitoring capabilities. Also, my norcold draws between 3.8 and 4.5 Ah as a comparision to Loren's...looks like about the same power requirements.

Shaun

[rwthomas1]

Shaun,
The main reason I would prefer a true sine wave inverter is supposedly flat panel monitors and laptop screens work better with them. IIRC, I read that in Calders book. I would like to add a flat panel TV in future and also laptop navigation so I want to make sure they work as intended. The true sine wave inverters are not that much more money. RT

[CaptnNero]

Shaun,
The main reason I would prefer a true sine wave inverter is supposedly flat panel monitors and laptop screens work better with them. IIRC, I read that in Calders book. I would like to add a flat panel TV in future and also laptop navigation so I want to make sure they work as intended. The true sine wave inverters are not that much more money. RT

While I disagree on the money part, I do agree that the pure sine wave inverter is the way to go. You can expect to pay about twice as much for a PSW versus an MSW inverter. For longevity the MSW isn't good for motors. Plus the some of the electronics don't handle the MSW well.

[wurzner]

I agree that sine if the better choice. I was only saying that my small modified sine wave has been really good to me. If I had to buy one, I'd probably go true sine if the money was close. Our laptop and everything else works fine on the one I have though which is contrary to what I would have expected. Please let the list know what you end up getting and what it costs.

regards
shaun

[rwthomas1]

Yes, you are correct, true sine wave is more money. For reference here are prices from Jackrabbit: www.jrenergy.com

Freedom Marine 20
Weight: 45 lbs
Dimensions: length: 13.2" x width: 11.5" x height: 7.9"
List Price: $1,200.00
JR Price: $840.00

Prosine 2.0 Inverter/Charger
Weight: 24 lbs
Dimensions: length: 5.7" x width: 11.2" x height: 17.7"
List Price: $1,700.00
JR Price: $1,190.00

An additional $350 gets you true sine wave performance. If I have done the math correctly thats about 30% more expensive than MSW. As most of us know, $350 is pocket change in the boat world. Especially since anyone considering a 2000watt inverter is likely to be installing it in a pretty substantial sailboat. A small price to pay for making sure pricey electronics work correctly. Like the blender for instance....... YRMV, RT

[CaptnNero]

...If I have done the math correctly thats about 30% more expensive than MSW. ...

Rob, that's some good pricing you quoted from jrenergy. When I was saying twice as much for the PSW vs MSW, I wasn't talking about buying a charger too as in the products that you quoted. When you look at just inverter products without chargers, the price multiplier that I spoke of becomes obvious. I don't think jrenergy carries those.

If you've already got a good charger, it would be too bad to have to toss it to put an inverter in, so that cost needs to be factored in also.

We must deal with such trade-offs to keep our blenders happy . ;)

[Loren Beach]

Maybe cheaper (and lots more fun!) just to use a gas engine blender...
http://www.gasblender.com/

..."Git R Done ! "...

:rolleyes:

Loren

[CaptnNero]

Maybe cheaper (and lots more fun!) just to use a gas engine blender...
http://www.gasblender.com/

..."Git R Done ! "...

:rolleyes:

Loren

Now you're talkin' Loren ! But do they have a propane conversion kit ?

[Loren Beach]

I recently got the new shunt properly wired (at least I hope so) and thought I would post a small diagram of the result. The only real change from factory stock is, of course, at the common ground point on the port side of the back of the engine -- flat flange on the bell housing. Now all the Neg. current does indeed return to the house bank through the shunt. All the LED's on the e-meter are now green... :rolleyes:

This is mostly a drawing of the "big wires" -- although I did include a reference to the sensing wires from the shunt and the original voltage sense wires that go the panel. I left out the Battery charger, if anyone wonders.

The only section of wire that might yet get replaced is the 18 inch connector from the "load side" of the shunt to the engine ground. It is about a #2, and smaller than the others. The factory used #4 to go to and from the panel, and one of these days I do intend to upgrade these by one size.
But that's another project! :p

The layout you see is geographically close to accurate for my boat. The starting/emergency Optima battery I added is under the aft berth, to the rear of the engine. The House bank, consisting of two golf carts batteries, is directly in front of the engine under the steps.

If I still do not have it right, it could be because I messed up in expressing myself in my drawing application, or I am simply suffering from brain fade.
:nerd:

Cheers,
Loren in PDX
Olson 34 Fresh Air

[Tom Metzger]

Loren - Congratulations!

I didn't see a copyright notice on your sketch, but I decided not to make a copy, just in case. :)

Replacing 18" of #2 wire will do nothing for you. A very rough calculation indicates that you will save about 8 millivolts at 70 amps, assuming the connector drops are the same. Better to buy a couple of beers with the saved money.

FWIW, I used #2 for all of my replaced battery connections and for the starter battery. I suspect that the engine only draws about 60 amps when the starter is running.

[Loren Beach]

Feel free to copy it, but I am not sure my little drawing would help anyone else, mostly because it was laid out (in a general way) to the physical location of the parts in our model of boat. I relate a lot better to that style of illustration than to a straight "block diagram."
:nerd:
Next phase is to replace the stock 1-2-All switch with the model 8080 Blue Seas distribution panel. I now have that panel mounted in a teak frame to fit over the hole that will be left when I remove the old switch.

If anyone has any comments about this changeover, please do pass them along. I sometimes do miss the obvious when launching into these projects...
;)

It looks like the cables just need to be shifted from the existing switch to the new panel...

Cheers,
Loren in PDX

[Shadowfax]

Loren,

Why did you feel the need to replace the 1 2 All switch with the Blue Sea unit? The Blue Sea unit is much more sexy, but did the stock switch fail in some way? Mine is working fine

[Loren Beach]

As usual, my experiences probably can serve equally as a warning to avoid... or an example to emulate. :)
After we put in the refrigeration, we wanted to keep the master switch for the then-designated House Bank energized all the time so that the drinks would always be cold when we got to the boat. Also, I was feeling a bit guilty for not having the bilge pump circuit energized when we were gone.
Problem is that with the master switch "on" the engine could be started when we are not there.
(Realistically, it is so easy to break into and hotwire a typical boat that the whole concepts of "locks" is almost mirth-provoking.) :rolleyes:

So I put a hidden cutoff switch for the engine panel. This works OK, but in the long run there is always the concern that someday a person might rotate the 1-2-all switch to off when under power and ruin a diode.
We also converted over to a dedicated starting/emergency battery, and no longer need or want to switch back and forth between two banks.
In 20 years we have never yet left the switch on "both" and run two banks down... but lots of people around us have.

Long story shorter: it seems like time to change over the original master switch to one with an "engine circuit" separate from the house power supply that can be left on all the time. This also puts a big breaker on the house hot side very close to the battery bank, always a good thing to show a future surveyor, IMHO.

And, Almost forgot: we have no keyed start switch on the cockpit panel. Just a replacement manual switch instead. First owner put it in, and I am inclined to stick with it, having been on a multitude of boats over the decades with keys that were frozen in place, broken off, lost! -- and other inconvenient problems. :mad:

So, I want the engine panel outside in the cockpit to be cold unless the inside master switch is turned on.

The Blue Seas panel is rather sexy looking also, as you noticed...
:cool:

Loren

[CaptnNero]

...And, Almost forgot: we have no keyed start switch on the cockpit panel. Just a replacement manual switch instead. First owner put it in, and I am inclined to stick with it, having been on a multitude of boats over the decades with keys that were frozen in place, broken off, lost! -- and other inconvenient problems. :mad:

So, I want the engine panel outside in the cockpit to be cold unless the inside master switch is turned on.

The Blue Seas panel is rather sexy looking also, as you noticed...
:cool:

Loren

Loren, I like this idea about the non-keyed switch outside. I recently picked up a similar Blue Seas panel but it includes a pair of bilge pump breakers also. I liked that the bilge pump breakers can only be reset, not manually turned off.

I do wonder what kind of manual switch that is that you don't have to worry about breaking it off like a key ? While I never leave the key in while under sail, I don't like the idea of having to insert it whenever we transition back to power.

Several years ago there was a couple sailing the Chesapeake in a small boat (26ft Catalina) in the middle of a calm summer night. While crossing the shipping channel they realized that a tanker was bearing down on them and they were becalmed. When one of them reached down in the dark to start the engine it was hopeless since they key was broken off. They had to abandon ship and swim away before the tanker hit them. They were picked up healthy miles away the next morning and reunited with their vessel which had drifted into a marina on the opposite side of the Bay with minor damage. They were on their way again that afternoon. As for the tanker, it ran aground after trying to avoid their abandoned vessel, but fortunately it was mild enough that there was not a spill.

[Captron]

Loren,

I rewired my battery bank using the same switch you pictured. My rewiring was extensive however so I can't say if yours will be a simple change out. I removed two on-off-both battery switches, a charge control rheostat, two isolators, and a diesel genset. Then I upgraded all of the wires, added a solar panel, heavy duty alternator, 3 stage regulator, 150 amp main breaker, inverter, and a combiner to charge the start battery. I did retain the Xantrex 40 amp shore power charger and I installed a shunt and a Xantrex TM500 battery monitor. I love Xantrex products and their customer service is pretty good too.

Everything works as planned and the switch makes things real simple. The engine switch cuts off the starter, the house switch manages everything else except the inverter and bilge pumps. There's nothing to remember ... on is on and off is off, period.

The next stage will be to rewire the main panels ... there's still a rat's nest back there despite all of the rewiring, simplifying and straightening out that I've done back there. Maybe next year. I just have to remember that time is nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once ... or as my wife says "patience dear, patience".

My wiring diagram is attached

[Loren Beach]

Ron,
Beautiful diagram!
Are you a CAD-experienced person, perchance?
:D

Thanks again, and when I get smart enough to figure out a reasonably intelligent question to ask, I'll write to you!

Best,
Loren in PDX
Olson 34 Fresh Air

[Captron]

Thanks for the compliment ... Nope, no CAD experience ... just Paint and PowerPoint ... I tend to copy someone else's work and modify it to suit my needs ... I think this was originally a Blue Seas diagram.

You'd be amazed at the drawings that you can turn out with PowerPoint ... sometimes you can just overlap shapes then take it over to Paint or some similar tool and erase or fill in something ... then bring it back as an object ... it's then easy to add dimension arrows and other annotations ... works for me anyway. At least I think it's easier than a pencil and T-Square.
:nerd:

[ted_reshetiloff]

That is exacty how I have my electrical system set up including the Blue Seas panel. The only difference is I dont have the Solar Panel. Its been working great, but I ultimately want to upgrade my house bank, get my alternator rebuilt or replaced, and possibly add a small inverter to run a better coffee pot and or a small flat panel tv. Ron I need to do the same panel rewire. Thinking about taking it on this winter but.... Its really the end game for my electrical system as I have done all the other upgrades you mentioned. Curious to know how big your house bank is, and where it is located? I am guessing its under the aft cabin bunk as your 38 is an earlier model than mine.

[cawinter]

A note to Loren (and others): The sensing wires in your diagram are not fused ANYWHERE , and they are permanently connected to the batteries. If the insulation ever chafes (or is someone plays with the meters behind the panel...:boohoo: ) they are a potential disaster waiting to happen. I had my little adventure with the charger cables a few weeks ago, and from now on everything will be fused.
Just a thought.

[Tom Metzger]

As I remember, the Link 10 cable comes with in-line fuses for the battery connections. If you make up cables you should definitely include fuses, both for ABYC compliance and common sense.

[Loren Beach]

Right, Tom.
The small sense wires from the pos. battery terminal to the monitor did require a fuse installed, and both were installed.
Note that the ones from the shunt in the Neg. half are not fused, and are not required to be in their instructions.

But, now that this has been brought up, it looks like the two factory red wires from each battery over to the DC panel switch and analog meter both do need fuses.. They are about a #14 or 12, as I dimly remember.

It's always something...

:)

Loren

[cawinter]

Yep, those are the ones. They are always hot, regardless of switch setting! So be carefull when you poke around the breaker panel and think that everything is dead with the battery switch to OFF...

I am not quite sure what I'll do with the sense wire. One thought is to just sense on the starting battery (w/ a separate off switch instead of the toggle) and have the house battery looked at by the LINK10. It was interesting to see that the LINK10 still pulls about 28mA even when it is off, amounting to somewhere around 4-5Ah/week.

[Captron]

That is exacty how I have my electrical system set up including the Blue Seas panel. The only difference is I dont have the Solar Panel. Its been working great, but I ultimately want to upgrade my house bank, get my alternator rebuilt or replaced, and possibly add a small inverter to run a better coffee pot and or a small flat panel tv. Ron I need to do the same panel rewire. Thinking about taking it on this winter but.... Its really the end game for my electrical system as I have done all the other upgrades you mentioned. Curious to know how big your house bank is, and where it is located? I am guessing its under the aft cabin bunk as your 38 is an earlier model than mine.

Yes ,my batteries are under the front edge of the quarter berth, behind the nav sation seat and in front of the fuel tank bulkhead. I have two group 31 gel cells and a group 24 gel cell starting battery shoehorned in there. I often think that I want more battery capacity but then I'm not sure it's worth the remodeling. The gel cells give me fast charging rates, no maintenance, and good capacity for their size. Next time I'll consider AGMs just because they give a few more amp hours for the G31 size case.

We typically cruise the Bahamas from December through May and so far this set up works fine. We run about 40 to 50 amp hour deficits (net after solar input) on a typical day and run our engine about an hour to an hour and a half each day to recover that. Normal sailing days often include at least that much motoring anyway. Bigger batteries wouldn't change that much. Our biggest power hog is the fridge which is on all the time followed by the Lectra-san unit ... probably eating less would save us amps as well as pounds.

We installed a Xantrex 1800 watt inverter this summer. (we put it under the nav station seat) We'll see how that goes. It has a built in transfer switch and we have it wired to the main AC panel so all of our outlets are live when it's on. We have a microwave where the oven should be and the inverter will run it provided the engine's running. We don't expect to use it much ... mostly it stores pots and pans. We've learned to get by without an oven over the years ... just heats up the cabin too much anyway.

The inverter mainly supplies power for various chargers, the computer ... and a small flat screen TV that when wired to the computer also plays DVDs but it's also useful for power tools like my Dremel or a corded drill. I make my coffee by boiling water in a teapot on the stove then pouring it through a Melitta filter directly into my mug. The wife uses the same hot water for her tea. Works for us.

We've thought about blenders, breadmakers, and coffee makers but we really can't give space away for such single use tools. Generally things on our boat have to serve more than one purpose or be particularly useful.

I'd be interested in what you end up doing for your panel wiring project, I'll be taking that one on next season I expect.

:egrin:

[Tom Metzger]

It was interesting to see that the LINK10 still pulls about 28mA even when it is off, amounting to somewhere around 4-5Ah/week.
Chris - 5 ah is peanuts. If you are going to leave your boat for a couple of months that's 45 ah; still not a problem.

Is there something I'm not seeing?

If concerned. pull the fuses.

[CaptnNero]

...It was interesting to see that the LINK10 still pulls about 28mA even when it is off, amounting to somewhere around 4-5Ah/week.
Chris, for perspective that is on the order of the self-discharge rate for conventional flooded cells.

[joerun26]

[QUOTE=Loren Beach;23181]I recently got the new shunt properly wired (at least I hope so) and thought I would post a small diagram of the result. The only real change from factory stock is, of course, at the common ground point on the port side of the back of the engine -- flat flange on the bell housing. Now all the Neg. current does indeed return to the house bank through the shunt. All the LED's on the e-meter are now green... :rolleyes:

I'm in the process of installing a Link 20 Battery Monitor and would appreciate any input from those who have one installed. I wired per the instructions, and the meter doesn't indicate a current draw correctly on one bank but does on the other. Whe I talked to Xantrex today and after an hours worth of checks, they concluded I have a ground problem. I also seem to be sharing load between the batteries even when my starting battery disconnect switch is open. For those of you with a XAntrex 20, is your "engine ground" from the shunt essentially connected to the starting battery negative ? (similar to Loren's drawing) I know troubleshooting like this is very difficult, - I would appreciate any dwings of a 2 battery bank system. ITs possible I'm not properly grounded ...

[Tom Metzger]

Joerun26 - How about my sketch on this thread from 7-26? Two batteries and two shunts.

[joerun26]

Joerun26 - How about my sketch on this thread from 7-26? Two batteries and two shunts.

Tom -
Thanks for the response. Did you purchase an additional shunt or is it drawn to show how its electrically connected ? (the link 20 shunt is set up for 2 banks). Other than that, did you run your batery negatives through the shunt before going to the engine as ground? (I believe I just paralleled my negatives to the shunt but didn't alter the original routing to ground ) Sounds like the problem ?
Thanks alot,,
joe
.....

[Tom Metzger]

Sounds like the problem ?
Ah, the light slowly dawns. :cool:

The monitor only knows what goes through the shunt. If you have both negatives connected to the same shunt it will read the combined currents. My sketch shows the way you MUST set it up. Two shunts. Pay close attention to how the charger is wired to the batteries. The monitor will not tell you the information you want to know if it is not done exactly this way.

I didn't show the alternator connections, but they must be the same as the charger with the current flowing through the shunt to the battery. This is a no brainer, as the alternator ground is normally connected to the engine ground. It is good practice to run a heavy wire from the alternator ground to the engine ground connection. It should be the same as you are using for the battery connections; usually #2 or larger.

Don't quit until both monitors work correctly. You will like the results.

Good luck.

[Loren Beach]

Ah, the light slowly dawns. :cool:

The monitor only knows what goes through the shunt. Good luck.

<snip>

This sounds like the problem I created when I initially got my ground shunt wired incorrectly. In retrospect the flaw seems obvious...
:rolleyes:

Best,
Loren

[Howard Keiper]

What a delicious thread! I just read and tried to digest all of it over my morning coffee...wow.
I don't make a living at this kind of thing, having retired, but if I did, I'd look at this kind of dialog as pure, practical source material. I am ABYC (electrical) certified; NMEA (cmet) too...AND an Ericson sailor...and am most proud of that.
Thank you all for a great discussion.
howard keiper
SeaQuest E-35 II
Berkeley

[joerun26]

Thanks Tom,

Makes sense . I'll make sure I route each battery negative through the shunt BEOFRE going to the engine ground. Regarding 2 shunts.. take a look at that attached image - doesn't the link 20 shunt provide the seperation you're talking about ? If not...... where did you get the second shunt ?

Thanks again,
joe

[Tom Metzger]

Yes, that is a "dual shunt", or two shunts on a common mounting plate. Their diagram is the same as mine. They must be quick learners. :egrin:

This means that if your connections of the battery heavy wires is correct you should concentrate on the small wires that are probably mis connected at one end or the other.

[joerun26]

Great -

Thanks alot Tom for the quick replys.. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Joe
"Tenacious"

[The Blue Heeler]

Well, 2 months away from getting our E29 down here. I was up working on it this past weekend. The PO had two "marine" batteries as the house/starter banks. Has anyone installed the Xantrax charger/inverter on an E29? If so, with what kind of battery bank? I would love to go this route to have the inverter and no brainer charging of the bank under engine power or shore power and have the automatic switching from shore to inverter on the AC distribution panel.

Any suggestions???

[Tom Metzger]

Any suggestions???
Yes, don't let the inverter kill your batteries when the shore power goes off and you are out of town on business for a week It happens to lots of people.