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Qest tubing (drinking water system)

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I am in the process of replacing most of the fresh (potable) water system in my 1988 Olson 34. This is the gray flexible tubing that Ericson used, along with thousands of homebuilders and RV manufacturers in the 80's. I had a persistant drip near the pressure pump. A local RV parts distributor told me last year that this product had been the subject of a huge lawsuit nationally and, except for some repair fittings, he had none of the tubing available for some years. A search on the web found much material about the suit ("largest product liability settlement in history", according to one site) and the information that common minerals, including even chlorine, cause the plastic to deteriorate in as little as 2 to 3 years in home use. I figure that boats and RV's average far less quantities of water through their plumbing over a typical year, and that's why we do not hear of oodles of failures. I know of another local '83 Ericson 33 with the same Qest tubing installed by the factory; he is having no leak problems yet. Please view this as a cautionary message only.
The RV parts guy asked me if I was getting any leaks where there was vibration, and correctly guessed that it was near the pump...
Since I had moved my water heater location 2 years ago, and planned to reformat the plumbing layout anyway (to eliminate about 25 feet of tubing!), I decided to do it this year. On my boat the factory had tried to "hide" the noise of the pump by placing it way back under the berth in the aft cabin. This had forced them to add a lot of extra tubing, and made the pump very hard to get at. IMHO, they could have put it under the galley and added an accumulator as well, and broke even on the labor they would have saved...
And that's where the pump (and new accumulator) is going next. I found food grade reinforced tubing with a colored cover at the local hose supply industrial store, for less than 35 cents a foot. I will go the old fashioned barbed fitting system. If one wanted something fancy, there is the Whale system available at West Marine, and one can have blue tubing for cold and red for hot!
So far the only part of the job that requires triple-jointed dexterity is getting at the tubing for the faucets in the head, and attaching little hanger straps in spaces barely big enough for a hampster.
And, lest I forget, when I pulled out about 8 feet of now-surplus wiring to the pump, there were scrapes clear through to the conductor about every 2 feet, from pulling it through the boat during initial installation. All but one were wrapped with electrical tape. I think the builders were in too much of a hurry.
Loren, Olson 34 #8
June/2001
 

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
I am somewhat familiar with this litigation and have been personally involved in litigation involving manufacturing defects in another kind of pipe. It is very easy to blow certain problems out of proportion to make it seem as though some isolated problems spell imminent failure of all of the pipe. In the case of polybutylene pipe like the Qest pipe, my brief research indicates that most of the problems have been at the joint where insert acetal plastic fittings were used (secured with exterior metal bands). On my boat (1985 32-3), all the fittings are plastic screw-on compression fittings, which, incidentally are still available at my local hardware store. Recently, I have wrestled some of my piping around (it is grey palstic - I am not positive that it is polyB)and it seems very tough. In fact, it has held up a lot better than the PVC hose which gets yellow and brittle over time. My only pipe failure so far was in PVC tubing (unreinforced) which devloped an aneurysm and burst. As for pump noise, I replaced my old pump with a "Sureflow Silencer". It's often hard to tell if its running unless I put my hand on it to check for vibrations.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Water reformat followup

The new (drinking) water system is working now. I had a day of re-sealing several threaded fittings to get rid of leaks. I did find that tefon paste works slightly better than the tape, at least for me. And one stubborn place where a bronze "t" fitting on the inlet of the hot water tank refused to seal ... where I installed the drain/winterizing plug in one side of the "t", I bedded the threads in silicone sealant. Last resort, but the messy stuff always works. Now, with the Shurflow (c) accumulator in the system, we can run the tap for about 3 or 4 seconds, a *day* after the pump was turned off. This should cut way down on pump cycling when we want a low flow rate, also. The new pump location under the galley counter, with a 4 by 6 inch plywood plate glued to the inside of the vertical molding, is gratifyingly quiet. Easily as silent as the old pump located way back aft under the aft cabin berth, oddly enough.
I note the the mounting base of the Shurflow pump is different -- they must have made some inprovements in the last 11 years...
Regarding the information that the Qest fittings and not the tubing were the main problem that caused the suit, this seems believable to me. The Qest tubing itself seems very tough; even where it has some kinks in it there are no signs of a crack, nor are there any leaks in the tubing.
Loren
Olson 34 #8 /July, 2001/
 

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
Great minds think alike - you put your new pump where I put mine. My old one, which I left in place because it still works, was way back behind the engine by the water lift muffler. I could barely reach it to pull the hoses off it. I could never have "serviced" it.
 
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jreddington

Member III
Yes, you can find the sucessor to the Qest piping at Lowe's and it's all compatible with the old stuff so easy to use in maintenance or modifications.

I personally like the stuff. The semi ridgid characteristic makes fit up easy, eliminates the kinking problems of hoses, and miminizes the pinching problem that hoses have. The biggest problem related to the previous litigation involved failed fittings in hidden spots resulting in water damage.

Two things in a boat that make this less of a problem is that we can get at most or all of our fittings "fairly" easily. Also, most locations allow for final draining into a bilge without the issue of failed sheetrock. Also, unless we have a shore pressure water connection we do not have an unlimited supply of high pressure water feeding any leaks.

At least on my E-28, when I'm away the pressure is off. If a leak develops overnight the purring of the pressure pump is going to tip me off to a problem.

Jim R.
 

ref_123

Member III
Water pump move

Geoff,

could you please post a picture of your installation under the kitchen sink? I had to remove the old pump, and the process of installing of a new one to the same place is not something I would choose to do willingly (actually, I tried yesterday, but failed - mounting holes did not match, and I did not have a drill on board). I can probably do it given there is no other option, but perspective to put the pump under the sink is much more attractive.

Also, our water system is supplied with a small transparent box between the junction of all the tubes from water tanks and the pump inlet. I presume it is a strainer of some sort. My problem is that it seems to suck air into the system, so the pump cannot get enough pressure to turn off and runs forever. Anybody else have that box and/or that problem? Can I just get rid of it?

Thanks,
Stan & Tanya,
Ericson 32-3 "Fire Eater"
 

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
Okay, but it might take me a while to get the photo. Basically, I mounted the pump vertically, right under the sink with the diaphram end down (pointing to the water tank manifold, which is just below it). Because the pump's inflow connection is now on the bow side, I looped the inflow hose from the manifold over the top of the pump into a plastic Shurflo strainer which is screwed onto the pump's inlet. The outflow hose comes off the stern facing outlet. When I mounted the pump, I first bolted it to a piece of reinforced plastic and then screwed and siliconed the board to the outside wall of the ice box using relatively large diameter self-tapping screws. I did this because the ice box fiberglass seemed thin.

The pump is now in a handy location with the four thruhulls under the sink; its very easy now to clean the inevitable scum out of the strainer.

Sounds like the plastic box between your manifold and the pump is a strainer. The new Shurflo's have a nice screw-on strainer that pops open to get access to the stainless mesh screen. I don't know how many people drink the water from their tanks. I don't! Try holding a glass of the water up the the light.

PS As I recall, I had to remove the galley sink to be able to install the pump.
 
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Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Ummmm.... Pure Water!

Geoff said; "I don't know how many people drink the water from their tanks. I don't! Try holding a glass of the water up the the light."
---------------------
I have been on several boats where this is the case. I try to avoid any overniters on such boats.
After all, I would not put up with this in our land home, and should always have pure clean water coming out of the taps on the boat. On our last boat I used to have to reach into the recesses of the water tanks every other year with a towel on a stick just to be sure there was no dirt accumulating. Also on that prior boat, I replaced the supply lines because there was some algae visible when I had some of the system apart.
Hose is inexpensive.
:rolleyes:

The Qest tubing I removed from our boat looked OK inside, but I replaced almost all of it just to make "a clean sweep" of the re-format of the system. The aft Ronco tank has a screw-in access port (also used for filling) that allows a reasonable look into the tank, so I can see that it is clean. The new SS tank that went in recently has two large screw-in access (and fill) plates, one on each side of the center baffle. It's completely clean and shines almost like a mirror inside.
Admittedly, cleaning up an older tank would take time, rags, bleach, and swear words. It would also be well worth the time, IMHO, to have pure drinking water at the turn of the tap, or when you press the foot pump lever.

It's just another thing to maintain... that the first owner(s) ignored and now you and I get to deal with!

Besides, bottled water is expensive!

Loren in PDX
1988 Olson 34
 
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Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
Well, I drink bottled water at home and my water (NYC) is reputed to be some of the best in the country. On my boat, even though I have cleaned the tanks fairly regularly, the water sits there for a month or three in the summer, so there is now way it is going to stay "fresh" . . . one of the disadvantages, I suppose, of being on a mooring. So on my boat, tank water is used only for washing.

PS On the boats I've crewed on, we always take bottled water.
 
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Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
In re-reading my last reply, it just doesn't read right -- excess false pride -- I was not making fun of anyone elses' municipal water. I guess that I take for granted our water here in PDX which is indeed very good. No one needs a softener, and several years ago it was even bottled and sold nationally. I should not be so proud of my dumb luck to be born here...
:rolleyes:

I remembered all the times I have toured down through California and almost all the water in all the different cities was bad-tasting and the showers would not even lather up the soap.
We are fortunate here in the NW.

As to my "clean" tanks on the boat... when we put the boat to bed next month, we will pump the system dry and dry our the tanks completely. This really keeps it fresh for next season.

Happy cruising,
Loren
 

escapade

Inactive Member
Loren;
Those of us that are fortunate enough to live in an area w/lots of fresh, clean water often take it for granted! Living in the Great Lakes Region (Michigan) we are blessed with lot's of water. My E34 has the water pump located under the galley sink from the factory. Slightly noisy but easy to access for service. Unfortunately my water tanks (3) don't have access ports and the PO was less than careful about how he maintained them. We have flushed many gallons of water w/bleach added through the system but I'm still reluctant to drink the tank water. We use a 2.5 gallon "jerry jug" for our drinking & coffee water. Avoids the clorine taste and yet I can feel comfortable about the tank water being safe cause of the clorine.
We also have the gray plastic water lines. We haven't had a problem as yet with them, but I've read with interest what you and the others had to say about them. Will probably stick to the "If it ain't broke , don't fix it" as we have lot's of other projects that are a higher priority.
By the way, pulled the boat last week and the bottom was clear of blisters. Much improved over the 4,000 +- that were there last fall. That was a project that I don't ever want to do again!
Sail fast. Bud E34 "Escapade"
 

ref_123

Member III
Thanks!

Thanks, Geoff,

looks good! It's very nice of you to share the "know-how". It really helps.

Best regards,
Stan
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Quest Tubing trivia, updated

I was looking over the new projects sections at Wally's fine web where his rebuild of his big C&C continues.
He now has gone through the galley water system and has great close-up pics of joining new water tubing with the existing Qest tubing, like we all have in our 80's series Ericsons/Olsons. :cool:

Very much Worth a look, IMHO.
http://www.wbryant.com/whnew.htm

and
http://www.wbryant.com/StellaBoat/Projects/plumbing/new/index.htm

Cheers,
Loren in rainy Portland, OR
 

sailinggreg

Member I
Yes, you can find the sucessor to the Qest piping at Lowe's and it's all compatible with the old stuff so easy to use in maintenance or modifications.

I personally like the stuff. The semi ridgid characteristic makes fit up easy, eliminates the kinking problems of hoses, and miminizes the pinching problem that hoses have. The biggest problem related to the previous litigation involved failed fittings in hidden spots resulting in water damage.

Two things in a boat that make this less of a problem is that we can get at most or all of our fittings "fairly" easily. Also, most locations allow for final draining into a bilge without the issue of failed sheetrock. Also, unless we have a shore pressure water connection we do not have an unlimited supply of high pressure water feeding any leaks.

At least on my E-28, when I'm away the pressure is off. If a leak develops overnight the purring of the pressure pump is going to tip me off to a problem.

Jim R.
Hi All,

I realize this thread is years old but I'm repairing the Qest water system on my 1980 Ericson 30+ so thought I'd try asking a couple questions. One of the T fittings is cracked.

1/ I've looked and don't see any Qest compatible stuff at Lowe's or Home Depot anymore, is the "successor" to it still available there? What is it called now? My local marine store doesn't have Qest compatible either. They have SeaTech connectors but they're not the right diameter. I'm in San Francisco Bay Area. I've found the Qest stuff online but shipping will be expensive.

2/ Does anyone know of connectors/adapters that will go from Qest to newer PEX tubing? That way I can just replace part of my system. If I can't find that, then I may need a couple feet of the Qest tubing.

Fyi, the T fitting that's cracked is between the water tanks and the pressure pump. I believe the third leg goes to the manual foot pump in the galley.

Problem is, the connector is about one foot down in a narrow crevice right after the tubing comes out of a hole behind/under the settee (seating area) and there's not much slack in the line. So, my plan to get at it would be to cut the tubing at the other end, by the water tank, attach some sort of messenger line so I don't loose it and then hopefully be able to pull it out to replace the T fitting.

See picture attached. Any advice is welcome!

Thanks,

Greg
T fitting.jpg
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
It's been a few years since I last looked, but I did find an assortment of Qest fittings at a large RV repair place. Zillions of those systems were installed in trailers and RV's in the 80's, so there are a lot of them still out there.
 

Dave G.

1984 E30+ Ludington, MI
Haven't tried it but have heard that sharkbite fittings will connect to both qest & pex. Qest is polybutylene which is on their compatible list. I purchased some quest fittings on Amazon not that long ago.
 
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