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Composting head
- Thread starter Solace
- Start date
Lots to Consider
First, there is a lot of information on sailnet regarding composting heads. If you go there, you will find many responses regarding your question. If you find that there is room enough to install one of these, you might want to consider the following:
*Potential resale of your boat. Composting heads are not a proven technology, not many people have experience with these products. The resale value of your boat might suffer from the installation.
*Composting heads do not really take solid human waste and turn it into something that you would put into your flower pots. This is an important point. Even if you allow the material to sit in you composting head for the whole summer the process is not complete. The material should be allowed to complete the composting process elsewhere and many people do not consider this. Anytime you add material to the mix the composting "clock" needs to be reset.
*Urine, that is collected in these systems, must not be allowed to mix with the solid waste. This cannot be stressed enough. The result of the improper handling of the liquid waste can be an issue. It will need to be disposed of frequently and rinsed, with soap and water often.
I personally like the idea of composting heads. Two years ago I gave the idea serious consideration. I decided to upgrade my existing system and continue with the traditional marine toilet. I think that a properly managed composting head could be a reasonable and responsible approach to disposing of human waste. Actually, the capacity of a composting head may extend the cruising range of many moderate sized boats.
Good Luck.
Please share with us what you learn, and if you decide to purchase on of these.
Paul
First, there is a lot of information on sailnet regarding composting heads. If you go there, you will find many responses regarding your question. If you find that there is room enough to install one of these, you might want to consider the following:
*Potential resale of your boat. Composting heads are not a proven technology, not many people have experience with these products. The resale value of your boat might suffer from the installation.
*Composting heads do not really take solid human waste and turn it into something that you would put into your flower pots. This is an important point. Even if you allow the material to sit in you composting head for the whole summer the process is not complete. The material should be allowed to complete the composting process elsewhere and many people do not consider this. Anytime you add material to the mix the composting "clock" needs to be reset.
*Urine, that is collected in these systems, must not be allowed to mix with the solid waste. This cannot be stressed enough. The result of the improper handling of the liquid waste can be an issue. It will need to be disposed of frequently and rinsed, with soap and water often.
I personally like the idea of composting heads. Two years ago I gave the idea serious consideration. I decided to upgrade my existing system and continue with the traditional marine toilet. I think that a properly managed composting head could be a reasonable and responsible approach to disposing of human waste. Actually, the capacity of a composting head may extend the cruising range of many moderate sized boats.
Good Luck.
Please share with us what you learn, and if you decide to purchase on of these.
Paul
Solace:
When we bought 'Imi Loa (Independence 31) almost 2 years ago we removed the existing marine head and holding tank and installed an Airhead Composting Toilet. The system isn't perfect but we are happy with our decision and our installation. The points brought up by newpbs are all goods ones to consider.
What we like about the system:
No holding tank taking up space (and no nastiness sloshing beneath the vberth)
Fewer thru hulls (well they are still there for now but will be removed/glassed in at next major haul out)
No trips to the pump out station
No holding tank smell (the boat used to smell like the blue chemical the PO but in the tank, a weird sweet smell). There is no smell in the boat, in the head there is a faint earthy smell that is not offensive at all.
Very simple to maintain mechanically
What we dislike:
Emptying the urine bottle (the manufacturer claims you will empty it every 2 days, we find we need to empty it every day). This requires being near facilities or dumping overboard. Depending on where you are this may be an issue.
Gnats: Twice during the summer we had gnats/fruit flies take up residence in the head. I find adding diatomaceous earth to the solids helps. We have only had the system 2 summers so we are still learning/experimenting.
Things we have learned:
Temperature is important: I see you are in Olympia, we are in Portland, Oregon so fairly similar climate. We find that even with our "mild" climate (not so mild with week up your way!) we need to run a space heater on low in the head when away from the boat in the winter or the composting process stops and things start getting septic.
Ventilation is important: We installed a Nicro day/nite plus vent for the toilet but found that during the gloom of winter the battery wasn't able to keep a charge between the rare sunny day. Our solution was to tie the vent into the house bank with a switch allowing us to run it off solar (when on the hook) but run it off the house system when at the dock.
A few other random thoughts:
We use COIR (coconut fiber) instead of peat. COIR is renewable, fairly cheap, and compact.
We chose Airhead over Nature's Head for a variety of reasons but a primary reason was the Nature's Head design requires you to tilt the whole upper part of the unit back (exposing the solids tank) to empty the liquid tank. This is more work and more unpleasant than the Airhead design. This also requires more clearance behind the unit which we didn't have.
We never used the traditional marine head so I can't provide a direct comparison but from the various accounts I've read I would much rather deal with our composting toilet. I am not familiar with the layout of the 35-2 but I wouldn't think our 31 would have a more spacious head compartment. The fit of the Airhead was just about perfect for us. It is definitely taller that a marine head but it sits on the little pedestal the marine head sat on and is fine. You can see a picture of the original head and the Airhead on our blog (scroll about half way down): http://imiloa.wordpress.com/2010/06/15/progress/
For us the composting toilet was a no brainer but it all comes down to what your are comfortable with and what your expectations are. I would rather deal with the idiosyncrasies of microbes turning poo into soil than with holding tank chemicals, pump outs, and joker valves.
I'd be happy to answer any questions you have about our experiences with the Airhead.
Rowan
When we bought 'Imi Loa (Independence 31) almost 2 years ago we removed the existing marine head and holding tank and installed an Airhead Composting Toilet. The system isn't perfect but we are happy with our decision and our installation. The points brought up by newpbs are all goods ones to consider.
What we like about the system:
No holding tank taking up space (and no nastiness sloshing beneath the vberth)
Fewer thru hulls (well they are still there for now but will be removed/glassed in at next major haul out)
No trips to the pump out station
No holding tank smell (the boat used to smell like the blue chemical the PO but in the tank, a weird sweet smell). There is no smell in the boat, in the head there is a faint earthy smell that is not offensive at all.
Very simple to maintain mechanically
What we dislike:
Emptying the urine bottle (the manufacturer claims you will empty it every 2 days, we find we need to empty it every day). This requires being near facilities or dumping overboard. Depending on where you are this may be an issue.
Gnats: Twice during the summer we had gnats/fruit flies take up residence in the head. I find adding diatomaceous earth to the solids helps. We have only had the system 2 summers so we are still learning/experimenting.
Things we have learned:
Temperature is important: I see you are in Olympia, we are in Portland, Oregon so fairly similar climate. We find that even with our "mild" climate (not so mild with week up your way!) we need to run a space heater on low in the head when away from the boat in the winter or the composting process stops and things start getting septic.
Ventilation is important: We installed a Nicro day/nite plus vent for the toilet but found that during the gloom of winter the battery wasn't able to keep a charge between the rare sunny day. Our solution was to tie the vent into the house bank with a switch allowing us to run it off solar (when on the hook) but run it off the house system when at the dock.
A few other random thoughts:
We use COIR (coconut fiber) instead of peat. COIR is renewable, fairly cheap, and compact.
We chose Airhead over Nature's Head for a variety of reasons but a primary reason was the Nature's Head design requires you to tilt the whole upper part of the unit back (exposing the solids tank) to empty the liquid tank. This is more work and more unpleasant than the Airhead design. This also requires more clearance behind the unit which we didn't have.
We never used the traditional marine head so I can't provide a direct comparison but from the various accounts I've read I would much rather deal with our composting toilet. I am not familiar with the layout of the 35-2 but I wouldn't think our 31 would have a more spacious head compartment. The fit of the Airhead was just about perfect for us. It is definitely taller that a marine head but it sits on the little pedestal the marine head sat on and is fine. You can see a picture of the original head and the Airhead on our blog (scroll about half way down): http://imiloa.wordpress.com/2010/06/15/progress/
For us the composting toilet was a no brainer but it all comes down to what your are comfortable with and what your expectations are. I would rather deal with the idiosyncrasies of microbes turning poo into soil than with holding tank chemicals, pump outs, and joker valves.
I'd be happy to answer any questions you have about our experiences with the Airhead.
Rowan
Thanks for the info. appreciate it greatly. Has anyone dealt with the C-head brand composting toilet? It handles the same task as the others but at half the price. And more importantly it's overall size is smaller. Which is my biggest consideration. Although after looking at your pics of the Airhead in your E-31 it seems to fit well. My head on the 35 may be a little larger but not much i'm sure. Thanks again. Steve.
I only learned of the C-head after we installed our Airhead so I don't know as much about them. However, I believe the C-head is a dehydrating toilet, not a composting toilet (though the Airhead doesn't completely compost the waste, I think of it as a composting/dehydrating hybrid). The main drawback I see with the C-head is the need to empty the solids container much more frequently (weekly if 2 people are using it daily). The manufacturer suggests transferring the contents to another container, we definitely don't have room for another container to store waste. The inventor participated in a discussion at the Sailfar site recently that might be helpful: http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php/topic,3470.0.html
Composting toilets- Airhead vs Natures Head
We have owned both the Airhead and Natures head. In fact, on our last boat we first installed an Airhead but had so many issues with it we ended up replacing it with a Natures Head. We liked both but the Natures Head was much better in my opinion. It is more sturdy, far easier to install (especially the hose hookup to the head), has a regular size seat, and the owner offers impeccable customer service. The Airhead may be more aesthetically pleasing depending on your particular tastes but the Natures Head is still a good looking unit and we found it to function better.
The issue regarding tilting back the "seat" to empty the liquid tank was easily mitigated by installing a pump out hose into the urine bottle. We just epoxied in a small through hull fitting for the hose (G-flex bonds well to this plastic) then ran it through a small whale hand pump, a vented loop, and finally to the head's through hull. Only took about an hour to install once the epoxy cured and it worked well. Instead of having to empty the bottle by dragging it on deck or two the marina bathroom we just opened the through hull, pumped for about a minute, then closed the through hull. All when we were far enough offshore of course...
We're awaiting survey on an E38-200 and are probably not going to install a composting head. The head requires an outside vent and the head on the E38 is way too close to the cockpit... It's true the composting heads do not smell, with the possible exception of when they are first used and especially if liquid get into the solids tank.
As for fit, our last boat was a Catalina 25. If the Nature's Head fit on that boat it will fit anywhere...
Thanks for the info. appreciate it greatly. Has anyone dealt with the C-head brand composting toilet? It handles the same task as the others but at half the price. And more importantly it's overall size is smaller. Which is my biggest consideration. Although after looking at your pics of the Airhead in your E-31 it seems to fit well. My head on the 35 may be a little larger but not much i'm sure. Thanks again. Steve.
We have owned both the Airhead and Natures head. In fact, on our last boat we first installed an Airhead but had so many issues with it we ended up replacing it with a Natures Head. We liked both but the Natures Head was much better in my opinion. It is more sturdy, far easier to install (especially the hose hookup to the head), has a regular size seat, and the owner offers impeccable customer service. The Airhead may be more aesthetically pleasing depending on your particular tastes but the Natures Head is still a good looking unit and we found it to function better.
The issue regarding tilting back the "seat" to empty the liquid tank was easily mitigated by installing a pump out hose into the urine bottle. We just epoxied in a small through hull fitting for the hose (G-flex bonds well to this plastic) then ran it through a small whale hand pump, a vented loop, and finally to the head's through hull. Only took about an hour to install once the epoxy cured and it worked well. Instead of having to empty the bottle by dragging it on deck or two the marina bathroom we just opened the through hull, pumped for about a minute, then closed the through hull. All when we were far enough offshore of course...
We're awaiting survey on an E38-200 and are probably not going to install a composting head. The head requires an outside vent and the head on the E38 is way too close to the cockpit... It's true the composting heads do not smell, with the possible exception of when they are first used and especially if liquid get into the solids tank.
As for fit, our last boat was a Catalina 25. If the Nature's Head fit on that boat it will fit anywhere...