Tiller Pilot Options

[K2MSmith]

When it comes to tiller pilots, the choice is pretty limited. We have basically two types of designs, the integrated (and cheapest type) like my current Simrad TP-32, where the controls for the pilot are directly on the servo arm that connects to the tiller. The other type is where the controls are in a separate panel remote from the servo arm. Two types that I have researched in this category are the Pelagic and the Raymarine EV-100 tiller pilot. None of these options have clutch system, so if you want to disengage the tiller pilot from the tiller, you have to manually disconnect the servo arm from the tiller - something you don't want to do in an emergency. This is unlike a typical below deck wheel pilot, where you can disengage with the touch of a button.

There is actually a third option, which is to go with a below deck system on a tiller boat. I don't have any experience with this or know anyone who has done it. My E-33 is pretty tight below deck to add modifications for such an installation. I would probably have to get some help doing it (which I loath because I have yet to have a good experience with anyone in this area yet). It's not going to be cheap. I am thinking in the 3-5K range installed - maybe more.

The Simrad TP-32 , which is the unit I currently have, is functional but pretty awkward to use with all the buttons for auto/manual, steering and tacking on the unit itself. Half the time, I forget which button turns left/right because of the forward/backward orientation of the buttons. I've never been able to get it to execute a tack automatically and the manual "push the turn 10 degrees button six times" doesn't seem to have a memory. I find the TP-32 useful for straight runs, but it's not very helpful for single-handed course maneuvers or even slow motoring to raise/lower sails.

So, replacing the AP is pretty high on my list for this new year improvement. (last year was the sails/rigging). I would appreciate any comments, learnings or ideas. I know that Raymarine sells the EV-100 system for wheel boats, so if you have such a system, maybe you have some feedback on the control panel part. It seems Raymarine has the slickest panel compared to the less-expensive Pelagic and since I have Raymarine instruments, integration with wind direction might be easier if I want to use that feature.

Thanks in advance..

 

[Slick470]

I weighed a similar choice a few years back and went with the EV-100 on our Olson 911. It takes a bit of fiddling to get the settings where you want them and the instructions could be a lot better, but once you get it dialed in it's a very nice autopilot. I have it networked with a B&G W/S/D system and Vulcan MFD and the two systems share data allowing the AP to sail in wind vane mode or track a course plotted on the Vulcan. The Vulcan doesn't fully control the AP and doesn't actually "see" it on the system but it is workable.

An issue that affected me, but may not affect you is the ability to apply updates to the AP. Typically you apply updates through MFD's and the brand have to match. With my system above, the AP needed an update that allowed the AP to function properly without a rudder reference transducer, which is a common setup on a tiller boat. Once the update was applied it worked great but before it was unusable. This was a few years back already, so any new Evo's should ship with the latest software.

As far as the control head, It does what it needs to do. One improvement would be a shortcut to easily change it from upwind and downwind modes where you really want to switch between true and apparent wind for the vane mode.

 

[K2MSmith]

I weighed a similar choice a few years back and went with the EV-100 on our Olson 911. It takes a bit of fiddling to get the settings where you want them and the instructions could be a lot better, but once you get it dialed in it's a very nice autopilot. I have it networked with a B&G W/S/D system and Vulcan MFD and the two systems share data allowing the AP to sail in wind vane mode or track a course plotted on the Vulcan. The Vulcan doesn't fully control the AP and doesn't actually "see" it on the system but it is workable.

An issue that affected me, but may not affect you is the ability to apply updates to the AP. Typically you apply updates through MFD's and the brand have to match. With my system above, the AP needed an update that allowed the AP to function properly without a rudder reference transducer, which is a common setup on a tiller boat. Once the update was applied it worked great but before it was unusable. This was a few years back already, so any new Evo's should ship with the latest software.

As far as the control head, It does what it needs to do. One improvement would be a shortcut to easily change it from upwind and downwind modes where you really want to switch between true and apparent wind for the vane mode.

Thanks for the quick reply. Where did you mount your control head ? Is there any problem mounting the control head near the compass ? I don’t have any room left on the starboard side of the companionway as I have the 3 other instruments there . Also is the mechanical servo arm strong enough to steer the boat with some weather helm or does the boat to be lightly loaded ( in terms of sail area ) in windy conditions? My boat is a bit bigger than a 911. ( 33’ ). Final question.. does the arm easily come off the tiller when you want to disengage ?

 

[G Kiba]

My boat came with the Raymarine ST2000. It seems to work fine for raising the main and even flying the kite in light winds singlehanded. I have also used it on long motor outings. It uses quite a lot of battery and starts behaving strangely on a low battery. The tacking feature is not so good. I suspect that the previous owner was trying to tie it into instruments and GPS but never completed the wiring. You can also consider the Pelagic tiller pilot. My friend who does all the SSS events on his Olson 30, DragonSong uses one and he flies the kite under some pretty heavy conditions.

 

[Loren Beach]

I do not know about the "compass safe" distance for this device, but we have always mounted our control head on the inside of the combing beside the steering position. Reason is that there is a lot of other traffic to dodge on a winding river and other nav hazards to avoid; we need to be near the wheel.
Check the manufacturer's install document for a compass distance. It might be fine. Their install instructions are usually on-line in PDF form.
Picture of ours: https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/ubs/non-skid-done-name-on.895/

 

[Alan Gomes]

When it comes to tiller pilots, the choice is pretty limited. We have basically two types of designs, the integrated (and cheapest type) like my current Simrad TP-32, where the controls for the pilot are directly on the servo arm that connects to the tiller. The other type is where the controls are in a separate panel remote from the servo arm. Two types that I have researched in this category are the Pelagic and the Raymarine EV-100 tiller pilot. None of these options have clutch system, so if you want to disengage the tiller pilot from the tiller, you have to manually disconnect the servo arm from the tiller - something you don't want to do in an emergency. This is unlike a typical below deck wheel pilot, where you can disengage with the touch of a button.

There is actually a third option, which is to go with a below deck system on a tiller boat. I don't have any experience with this or know anyone who has done it. My E-33 is pretty tight below deck to add modifications for such an installation. I would probably have to get some help doing it (which I loath because I have yet to have a good experience with anyone in this area yet). It's not going to be cheap. I am thinking in the 3-5K range installed - maybe more.

The Simrad TP-32 , which is the unit I currently have, is functional but pretty awkward to use with all the buttons for auto/manual, steering and tacking on the unit itself. Half the time, I forget which button turns left/right because of the forward/backward orientation of the buttons. I've never been able to get it to execute a tack automatically and the manual "push the turn 10 degrees button six times" doesn't seem to have a memory. I find the TP-32 useful for straight runs, but it's not very helpful for single-handed course maneuvers or even slow motoring to raise/lower sails.

So, replacing the AP is pretty high on my list for this new year improvement. (last year was the sails/rigging). I would appreciate any comments, learnings or ideas. I know that Raymarine sells the EV-100 system for wheel boats, so if you have such a system, maybe you have some feedback on the control panel part. It seems Raymarine has the slickest panel compared to the less-expensive Pelagic and since I have Raymarine instruments, integration with wind direction might be easier if I want to use that feature.

Thanks in advance..

FWIW, I replaced my Raymarine ST2000+ tiller pilot with a Pelagic. I really like the Pelagic. The ST2000+ was a toy by comparison. The Pelagic will steer my boat in conditions that the Raymarine wouldn't touch. The EV-100 may be an altogether different matter, though, and since I haven't used one I cannot comment on it. As I recall, Randy Shelman, who used to post on this forum, had an EV-100 on his Ericson 26-2 and really liked it also.

As for disengaging it in an emergency: I don't really understand what the concern is. Although I haven't had any big hairy emergencies exactly, I have had several times where I'd be sailing or motoring along under the autopilot and all of a sudden come upon a crab pot or other floating object. Being already at the tiller, all I had to do is pop off the actuator arm and take over steering manually to avoid the obstruction. This certainly takes no more time than hitting a button to disengage a clutch, and less time than if the button is located away from the tiller. It's true that while the actuator arm is off the tiller the pilot gets confused trying to steer the boat, which it obviously can't do since it's no longer moving the rudder. But this is no big deal at all. Once I'm past the obstruction I just drop the actuator arm back on the pin and go on my merry way.

Brian Boschma, who is a member of this forum, gives good support and is always tinkering with his product, such as through software updates. Though I did have some issues along the way, he attended to them and I've now got a unit that is dialed in and functions very well. I'm happy with it.

 

[K2MSmith]

FWIW, I replaced my Raymarine ST2000+ tiller pilot with a Pelagic. I really like the Pelagic. The ST2000+ was a toy by comparison. The Pelagic will steer my boat in conditions that the Raymarine wouldn't touch. The EV-100 may be an altogether different matter, though, and since I haven't used one I cannot comment on it. As I recall, Randy Shelman, who used to post on this forum, had an EV-100 on his Ericson 26-2 and really liked it also.

As for disengaging it in an emergency: I don't really understand what the concern is. Although I haven't had any big hairy emergencies exactly, I have had several times where I'd be sailing or motoring along under the autopilot and all of a sudden come upon a crab pot or other floating object. Being already at the tiller, all I had to do is pop off the actuator arm and take over steering manually to avoid the obstruction. This certainly takes no more time than hitting a button to disengage a clutch, and less time than if the button is located away from the tiller. It's true that while the actuator arm is off the tiller the pilot gets confused trying to steer the boat, which it obviously can't do since it's no longer moving the rudder. But this is no big deal at all. Once I'm past the obstruction I just drop the actuator arm back on the pin and go on my merry way.

Brian Boschma, who is a member of this forum, gives good support and is always tinkering with his product, such as through software updates. Though I did have some issues along the way, he attended to them and I've now got a unit that is dialed in and functions very well. I'm happy with it.

How is your actuator arm connected to the tiller ? Mine has a ball joint . It’s not easy to pop off .

 

[Alan Gomes]

How is your actuator arm connected to the tiller ? Mine has a ball joint . It’s not easy to pop off .

It's just a pin with a rounded head. The pin sticks up vertically from the tiller. The end of the actuator arm has a hole in it and it just sits on the pin. (The link takes to you a picture of the actuator I have. If you run your mouse over the picture to magnify it you can see that it's just a simple hole at the end of the actuator arm.) It never has come off when I didn't want it to--though I'm sure if the boat turned turtle it would! I've had no problem just popping it off quickly when I've had to.

 

[Christian Williams]

I have found the (wheel version) ev-100 excellent, even on an E381. In smooth water it works up to 15 knots, and downwind too. It can't handle waves that throw the boat off course and would require strong manual correction by a helmsman.

FWIW, I don't use the "tack" function of the P70 control head (push two buttons simultaneously). I just touch the 10-degree button as many times as necessary-- 9 times for 90, 13 times for a 130 degree tack. Same as any other course alteration. .

As Loren says, the control head has to be in reach of the helm. We wind up steering the boat with the buttons, including dodging paddleboarders in harbor.

The programming of the control head is confusing, and for me the rate of turn of the rudder is too slow. Here is a workaround and general introduction.

 

[K2MSmith]

It's just a pin with a rounded head. The pin sticks up vertically from the tiller. The end of the actuator arm has a hole in it and it just sits on the pin. (The link takes to you a picture of the actuator I have. If you run your mouse over the picture to magnify it you can see that it's just a simple hole at the end of the actuator arm.) It never has come off when I didn't want it to--though I'm sure if the boat turned turtle it would! I've had no problem just popping it off quickly when I've had to.

It’s a little hard to see from the picture. In my case, the pin is s ball and it snaps into the end of the control arm . It takes about 10 lbs of force in the right direction ( upward ) to pop it off . The technique I use is to wrap my fingers around the tiller and grab the arm below . ( it is mounted under the tiller not on top ) .

 

[toddster]

The ST2000+ is so squirrelly that you get a lot of practice snatching back manual control. When it's putting a lot of pressure on the tiller, it can be difficult to disengage, so a stab at the "stand by" button is sometimes needed. Nothing that a little panic can't expedite. The advantage is that there are loads of pre-owned units available for cheap in the usual places, if you only need something to steer while you raise the sails or motor.

 

[Alan Gomes]

It’s a little hard to see from the picture. In my case, the pin is s ball and it snaps into the end of the control arm . It takes about 10 lbs of force in the right direction ( upward ) to pop it off . The technique I use is to wrap my fingers around the tiller and grab the arm below . ( it is mounted under the tiller not on top ) .

I can't exactly quantify the amount of force it takes to pop off the actuator arm, but I've not found it to be a whole lot in those instances when I had to avoid a crab pot or what not. It pops off without much effort, but doesn't come off under normal operation.

 

[Alan Gomes]

The ST2000+ is so squirrelly that you get a lot of practice snatching back manual control. When it's putting a lot of pressure on the tiller, it can be difficult to disengage, so a stab at the "stand by" button is sometimes needed. Nothing that a little panic can't expedite. The advantage is that there are loads of pre-owned units available for cheap in the usual places, if you only need something to steer while you raise the sails or motor.

I had an ST2000+ and disliked it. It was indeed squirrelly, and they break easily to boot. The gears are plastic and they just are not very robust. When it was the only option out there, I bought it from WestMarine with an extended warranty, so that when (not if) it broke I could just hand it back to them for a replacement. (I usually don't find extended warranties to be a good deal, but in this instance I did.) Sure enough, I had it break within the extended warranty period and WM did indeed just hand me a new one from off the shelf. Not too long after I got the replacement I discovered the Pelagic and sold the ST2000+ to a friend for a really good price, with still a bit of time left on the warranty. He knew what he was getting into but wanted it anyway. I don't miss it.

The Pelagic has a much more powerful actuator. I really see the difference when I'm sailing back from Catalina on a broad reach and surfing down the sides of swells, which naturally makes the boat want to round up as it goes down the trough. While I can do better hand steering than the Pelagic can because I can see and anticipate what is coming, the Pelagic does a remarkably good job. The actuator has enough power, and the brains of the autopilot do an impressive job of figuring out how much helm to apply and when. It's really quite good.

For just motoring, any of these units would be usable. But I actually like to be able to use them under sail in over 15 knots. For that, I found the Raymarine pretty lacking.

 

[Slick470]

Thanks for the quick reply. Where did you mount your control head ? Is there any problem mounting the control head near the compass ? I don’t have any room left on the starboard side of the companionway as I have the 3 other instruments there . Also is the mechanical servo arm strong enough to steer the boat with some weather helm or does the boat to be lightly loaded ( in terms of sail area ) in windy conditions? My boat is a bit bigger than a 911. ( 33’ ). Final question.. does the arm easily come off the tiller when you want to disengage ?

I wanted the control head within easy reach of the tiller and in the 911 cockpit there isn't really a great place for that, and it is relatively wide at the stern so I didn't want to put it on one side or the other of the seat back as half the time it would be on the wrong side of the boat, so I though I'd be smart to put it on the back face of the cockpit footwell. It is a great place for just reaching down and pressing the buttons, but it's a pain if I need to go into a menu, mostly because at that point I'm looking down and trying to read it upside down.

It does pretty well with some weather helm but it can get overloaded and shut itself down to protect itself if you try to sail the boat in bigger breeze and don't at least try to balance the rig. I found that out shortly after I got it and was out tooling around and got in a bit over my head with too much sail up for the conditions. If I know it is higher winds before I go out I will adjust the response time to be less aggressive which helps.

I have heard that the tiller ram is the weak point in these systems and if mine eventually fails, I'll look at a pelagic ram as a replacement.

For releasing the ram, I have gotten used to hitting the standby button first and then popping off the ram. With the location I have of the control head, it's usually easy to reach down and do it since I'm already there to pop the ram off the pin. If I don't hit standby first it's a lot harder.

 

[frick]

It's just a pin with a rounded head. The pin sticks up vertically from the tiller. The end of the actuator arm has a hole in it and it just sits on the pin. (The link takes to you a picture of the actuator I have. If you run your mouse over the picture to magnify it you can see that it's just a simple hole at the end of the actuator arm.) It never has come off when I didn't want it to--though I'm sure if the boat turned turtle it would! I've had no problem just popping it off quickly when I've had to.

I used a simple tiler pilot for 20 years on my E 29. It just works in all it's simplicity. It does not do as well down wind. It is a great tol

 

[K2MSmith]

I had an ST2000+ and disliked it. It was indeed squirrelly, and they break easily to boot. The gears are plastic and they just are not very robust. When it was the only option out there, I bought it from WestMarine with an extended warranty, so that when (not if) it broke I could just hand it back to them for a replacement. (I usually don't find extended warranties to be a good deal, but in this instance I did.) Sure enough, I had it break within the extended warranty period and WM did indeed just hand me a new one from off the shelf. Not too long after I got the replacement I discovered the Pelagic and sold the ST2000+ to a friend for a really good price, with still a bit of time left on the warranty. He knew what he was getting into but wanted it anyway. I don't miss it.

The Pelagic has a much more powerful actuator. I really see the difference when I'm sailing back from Catalina on a broad reach and surfing down the sides of swells, which naturally makes the boat want to round up as it goes down the trough. While I can do better hand steering than the Pelagic can because I can see and anticipate what is coming, the Pelagic does a remarkably good job. The actuator has enough power, and the brains of the autopilot do an impressive job of figuring out how much helm to apply and when. It's really quite good.

For just motoring, any of these units would be usable. But I actually like to be able to use them under sail in over 15 knots. For that, I found the Raymarine pretty lacking.

One more question on the Pelagic. Does the control head support kind of a "manual" form of tacking where if you hit, say a +10 degrees button 6 times, the boat will roughly turn 60 degrees ? I was a club member on a previous boat that had a raymarine AP which worked well in this case.

 

[Alan Gomes]

One more question on the Pelagic. Does the control head support kind of a "manual" form of tacking where if you hit, say a +10 degrees button 6 times, the boat will roughly turn 60 degrees ? I was a club member on a previous boat that had a raymarine AP which worked well in this case.

The Pelagic can do the following sorts of turns, depending upon whether one has a 4-button wireless remote (highly recommended) or simply operates the unit from the control head:

• 2-deg. turns per button press--both wireless remote and control head
• Automatic tacking--both wireless remote and control head (Note: Tacking angle can be preset from 80 deg. to 105 deg.)
• 10-deg per button press--wireless remote only
• 25-deg. per press--wireless remote only

And yes, you can do multiple button presses to add up a cumulative number of degrees. (You need to have a slight pause between presses to make sure they all register--maybe one second or so.)

I find that 99% of the time I use the wireless remote, which I keep mounted on my companionway bulkhead with Velcro or sometimes in my pocket. I have the control head mounted on the stern to keep it out of the way. It's not too bad accessing the control head there, but I like using the wireless remote more because I always have it right with me. Plus, it gives the additional 10- and 25 degree-per-press turning functions.

 

[Alan Gomes]

One more question on the Pelagic. Does the control head support kind of a "manual" form of tacking where if you hit, say a +10 degrees button 6 times, the boat will roughly turn 60 degrees ? I was a club member on a previous boat that had a raymarine AP which worked well in this case.

I should also say that the auto tack feature works very, very well, so I've never used multiple presses to do that. I did adjust the tacking angle to something more than 90-degrees, but I don't recall just now to what I set it.