Surveyor in the greater Seattle area for '76 E27

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sialawaysailaway90

Junior Member
Before I decide whether I continue working on my (soon to be) E27, I want the vessel to be inspected. I want to know if it safe, if everything is intact, if the engine can be fixed (volvo), opinions on recent electrical work, how to fix certain things/when I need a professional and if there is an excess of mold (just found a dark black area that I could press through with my fingers with pressure near the sink)

The issues I am facing is not knowing if I am being taken advantage of. I've seen posts on the internet where someone was quoted 5k. I can potentially pay 1k-1.5k and even that's pushing it at this time in my life.

Since it's 50 years old makes it more expensive right off the bat, I do know that.

I also don't want to hire someone and think that they would be the person I would go to for repairs.. if I can find a better place that has better prices.. I will go through them. If I make that clear to them prior to the survey, will they still give it their all?
 
Christian Williams

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
In an earlier thread you heard from Bruce Gary. He seemed to volunteer to go over your boat with you.

I don't know how many bottles of Courvoisier that would cost, but somebody like Bruce, an experienced and current owner, is a better source of guidance than anybody you can hire. And for the jobs and judgements mentioned above, hiring anybody at all will be a challenge, and prohibitably expensive.

And, I just noticed in that thread, Nick J, a forum moderator, also made himself available. These guys are good to know, would be invaluable help in weighing options. Note how I impose the time of others from 1200 miles away.

Generally you hire a marine surveyor (which may be necessary to get a slip), but they limit themselves to their job, which is overall assessment basically for insurance purposes. They never do repairs, and can't and won't certify an engine or rig in a routine survey.

There is very little shopping around in maintaining a 50-year-old boat, since the pool of available tradesmen is shallower every year. Our boats don't make any sense to own without DIY, and sometimes DIY doesn;t make any sense, either.
 
Loren Beach

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
reginaldobaker said:
Wait, you're talking 5k for a survey?
Click to expand...
Please note that the price of the boat is not proportional to the cost of a professional survey. The survey provides a roadmap for maintenance and upgrades, and for any boat over 20 years old, there will be some (or lots) of deferred maintenance that has to be scheduled. A survey will usually be needed to insure it, as well.
I seriously doubt that any survey will cost "5K". (!) My last survey cost a fraction of that, in 2021.

I am privileged to know a well regarded surveyor, and her web page has a lot of useful info. Like this part: http://www.alisonmazon.com/Type_of_Surveys-2/styled/
I do not know the current price per foot, and of course distance would add travel costs.
The OP will need to do some research on this.

When evaluating a used boat, her checklist is a great place to start. (Little bit of whimsy buried in it too....)

faults, problems, water, clamps, scupper, sea cocks, electrical, bilge pumps, hoses, batteries, corrosion, fuel, tanks, blowers, engines, sanitation, ofors

www.alisonmazon.com

Cost per foot is referenced on this page: http://www.alisonmazon.com/survey_dynamics-3/dynamics.html
Cheers,
Loren
 
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Loren Beach

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
"Just one more thing" as Steve Jobs used to say....
Back in 1984, when we bought our prior 26 footer up in BC, I had zero idea how to find a trusted surveyor. in another country.
After some pondering I called up a coulple of large banks in Victoria, and asked politely if I could speak to whoever approved lending out the bank's money on a sailboat. After chatting with a staff person for a bit, I was put through to a loan officer. I explained that I was curious to know who they trusted to do a survey before risking their bank's money on a loan. I got several names and one of them did our survey and was excellent.
The loan officer said he liked my logic. I was inordinately pleased with myself, too.
:)
 
G

G Kiba

Sustaining Member
Christian is dead on with this.
"Generally you hire a marine surveyor (which may be necessary to get a slip), but they limit themselves to their job, which is overall assessment basically for insurance purposes. They never do repairs, and can't and won't certify an engine or rig in a routine survey."

Someone with years of experience and knowledge with the same boat is invaluable. Having two people available? Even better! I love looking at boats in situations like this and have done so for several friends. I think that a good part of boat ownership is knowing your own capabilities. What you know you can do, what you are willing to learn, and how much you are willing to spend. Boat ownership and sailing are not for everyone.
 
A

AlanO

Member II
We bought Gravlax about a year and half ago and was happy with the survey conducted by Jim Merrick (425-998-8546; www.merrickmarine.com) out of Mill Creek. Everything above is spot on. We used Jim on two surveys and results of the first survey led to us not buying the first boat we made an offer on. A survey is valuable for the starter to-do list, including must-do safety items to meet coastguard regs, as well as recommended items to meet ABYC industry standards. I think everyone can attest to the to-do list being revised on a regular basis and never finished. A surveyor will not catch everything in the short time they have to check-out the boat, but is invaluable for the items they do find. They should be up front about what they will not look at in detail (e.g., rigging, engine, behind the electrical panel). The other valuable information I got from the survey was the estimate of fair market value in its current condition, which is often needed for insurance purposes, but also helps you decide if you are paying a fair price for the boat. We paid a little over $1000 for the survey plus costs for the haul-out. This included a short sea trial. If you have substantial experience, a good eye for details, and an objective outlook, maybe you can get by without a survey. Otherwise, I think the cost of a survey is worth every penny.

The first boat we put an offer on and did not buy was owned by a couple who bought the boat from a friend and they did not have it surveyed. The survey we commissioned found the boat had lots of problems and the estimated FMV was a lot less than what we offered and the asking price. Makes me wonder if they are still friends. The cost of the survey and haul-out were a bitter pill, but worthwhile. We also got a mechanical survey for this boat from a different vendor, but wasn't terribly satisfied with what they did and would not recommend.
 
S

sialawaysailaway90

Junior Member
I have received several quotes.

All under 1k. I have no idea why someone paid 5k for a f'in survey. I think I miss read the article or he had an extremely large yacht or had it included the cost of repairs.

I am not trying to pay more than 850. Hoping for a detailed list of whats wrong.

I am lacking funds right now, so I am cleaning up things. Getting it organized (removing all of the unnecessary ish that i do not need or want/cleaned/sealing as much as i can that i know how to do.


Edit-

I did reach out to Jim Merrick. He did not respond. I may follow up and see if he can help but.. I also reached out to an another accredited marine surveyor, Paul Van Slyck. He responded the following morning and gave me an estimate.

$700-850 is a lot of money for me at this time. I have had a lot of things pop up (I love premiums, bills, etc. Just love spending 2k a month on life)
 
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S

sialawaysailaway90

Junior Member
Loren Beach said:
"Just one more thing" as Steve Jobs used to say....
Back in 1984, when we bought our prior 26 footer up in BC, I had zero idea how to find a trusted surveyor. in another country.
After some pondering I called up a coulple of large banks in Victoria, and asked politely if I could speak to whoever approved lending out the bank's money on a sailboat. After chatting with a staff person for a bit, I was put through to a loan officer. I explained that I was curious to know who they trusted to do a survey before risking their bank's money on a loan. I got several names and one of them did our survey and was excellent.
The loan officer said he liked my logic. I was inordinately pleased with myself, too.
:)
Click to expand...

I will forever claim that I thought of this, passing it on as my own experience until being called out and humiliated. Some next level critical think right here.
 
S

sialawaysailaway90

Junior Member
G Kiba said:
Christian is dead on with this.
"Generally you hire a marine surveyor (which may be necessary to get a slip), but they limit themselves to their job, which is overall assessment basically for insurance purposes. They never do repairs, and can't and won't certify an engine or rig in a routine survey."

Someone with years of experience and knowledge with the same boat is invaluable. Having two people available? Even better! I love looking at boats in situations like this and have done so for several friends. I think that a good part of boat ownership is knowing your own capabilities. What you know you can do, what you are willing to learn, and how much you are willing to spend. Boat ownership and sailing are not for everyone.
Click to expand...

I know that surveyors do not do repairs... they 'judge' your boat. If the surveyor and some fellow local Ericson owners can tell me-

"sailawaysailaway, i think you're better off selling this! btw Orinoco Flow by Enya is a dope song. good choice of lyrics for a sailboat forum username"

or

"sailawaysailaway, repairing it would be great and not too costly. btw Orinoco Flow by Enya is a dope song. good choice of lyrics for a sailboat forum username" thats the goal.

All of that being said,

I don't want someone to half ass their job because they're getting paid either way. That's why I want to work with surveyors who are accredited with the NAMS, SAMS, Both of those or Bust. Along with great reputations.


I truley appreciate all the advice in this thread!
 
P

Pete the Cat

Sustaining Member
sialawaysailaway90 said:
I know that surveyors do not do repairs... they 'judge' your boat. If the surveyor and some fellow local Ericson owners can tell me-

"sailawaysailaway, i think you're better off selling this! btw Orinoco Flow by Enya is a dope song. good choice of lyrics for a sailboat forum username"

or

"sailawaysailaway, repairing it would be great and not too costly. btw Orinoco Flow by Enya is a dope song. good choice of lyrics for a sailboat forum username" thats the goal.

All of that being said,

I don't want someone to half ass their job because they're getting paid either way. That's why I want to work with surveyors who are accredited with the NAMS, SAMS, Both of those or Bust. Along with great reputations.


I truley appreciate all the advice in this thread!
Click to expand...
I have railed about this before, but here it goes again. I would put little faith in the SAMS and NAMS certifications. While no doubt there are great folks out there with this designation, my recent experience is that both these organizations have "certified" folks with very little actual experience is boat building and hands on repair recently. The last few I have had contact with appear to be armchair sailors who are good at reading others' books on survey and repair, got themselves attached to another surveyor to document their "experience' and poof! they are out there charging you $800 for their opinion. I would never hire a surveyor except if forced to by an insurance company. With a production boat like Ericson there is some owner---most likely several on this forum. who would be able to offer much more targeted and complete assessment of a particular model of boat. For instance, it would be worth paying for Christian's travel and accommodations (maybe more) to get him to look at one of the models he has owned, worked on, and sailed. There are good surveyors out there but the professional designation has been undermined by the organization's lax standards and need for bodies and income. For what you say you want, I think there are cheaper and much better alternatives. Just my .02.
 
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