Standing rigging tuning

alcodiesel

Bill McLean
I have gotten up to speed a bit watching you tubes and reading on this subject. What would be the acceptable tension range for the rigging on an E27 using a Loos gauge?

Any other ideas, opinions, contentions, observations or questions are appreciated.
 

alcodiesel

Bill McLean
Rig tuning: forbidden topic?

Geeze is rig tuning the forbidden topic never to talk about? Hasn't anyone ever adjusted their rigging using a Loos gauge? Or anything other than "feel?" Any info is appreciated. The rig on this boat I bought is tight, of course I am used to much smaller boats.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Achieving the Right Tension

Well, it's the time of the season when less sailors are lurking on the site, so responses may be slow coming in.

And, from reading posts for many years, I do not see too many sailors owning up to having a Loos gauge - not common with any of the racing sailors that I know, FWIW.

And, the majority of us likely get to a good state of rig tension, and then leave it alone... for a long time... :rolleyes:

Have you read Brion Toss' excellent book? It would seem that a good basic tune could be done without a gauge, although having a gauge would be nice just to verify what you think that you are seeing. (Kind of like the dial gauge on my hydraulic backstay adjuster.... although when the boat makes a creaking noise I am nearing 2K pounds!)

:egrin:

Loren
 
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Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
Geeze is rig tuning the forbidden topic never to talk about? Hasn't anyone ever adjusted their rigging using a Loos gauge? Or anything other than "feel?" Any info is appreciated. The rig on this boat I bought is tight, of course I am used to much smaller boats.
Yes, I've used a Loos gauge on my previous boat, but I've not had a need to use it on my present one just yet. (I had the boat re-rigged and it was tuned by the rigger at that time.) And if you have a bit of experience you can do it just fine without the Loos gauge.

Anyway, the Loos gauge can help you tension the shrouds/stays in terms of the % of the wire's breaking strength. Roughly speaking, you would want to tension your uppers, forestay, and backstay to about 15-20% of the breaking strength. Your lowers are going to be more like 10-12%. If you have both forward and aft lowers you generally want to make the forward lowers a bit tighter than the aft ones.

A few other tips:

You don't want to over-tune the backstay (i.e., too tight) or the rig will get squirrely and may not want to stay in column. Plus, you might want to do the backstay last.

Start out by loosening everything so it is loose but not flopping around. Then make sure the masthead is centered using the uppers. You could use a halyard for this, but realize that the halyard may not be dead center at the top of the mast because the sheave will likely be off to one side. So what you could do is to get a sail slug and run the slug to the top of the mast with a line attached to it that you would use to determine whether the masthead is centered athwartships.

Sailing to windward in a moderate breeze (say 12 knots?) your leeward shrouds should be unloaded but not "floppy loose." If they get too loose then when you tack they will put shock loads on the rigging, which is hard on it.

If you have a good musical ear, you once you've tuned it you can tap on the shrouds with, say, a screwdriver handle and listen to the pitch. The shroud pairs should sound the same: e.g., the port and starboard uppers should have the same pitch.

Anyway, I'm sure that folks more knowledgeable about this than I am will chime in with additional hints and/or corrections.
 

Afrakes

Sustaining Member
Tuning

Since my mast goes up and down annually I use a Loos to do the initial rig tension setting once the mast is in column. On the first sail of the season I use the tuning technique described in the E-28 manual. Pretty much the same basic routine as used by Alan. After the boat has been on the water for a week or two (things do change) I recheck with observation while sailing and use the Loos just to see how even the tension is. After the boat "settles in" I find that the tension doesn't change during the season. On Champlain the sailing season lasts from mid May to mid October. Most of the tension I experience is that produced during the mast's trip up and down.
 

Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
Since my mast goes up and down annually I use a Loos to do the initial rig tension setting once the mast is in column. On the first sail of the season I use the tuning technique described in the E-28 manual. Pretty much the same basic routine as used by Alan. After the boat has been on the water for a week or two (things do change) I recheck with observation while sailing and use the Loos just to see how even the tension is. After the boat "settles in" I find that the tension doesn't change during the season. On Champlain the sailing season lasts from mid May to mid October. Most of the tension I experience is that produced during the mast's trip up and down.
Al, Before you take down your rig at the end of the season, couldn't you mark the studs with some tape so that the next time you put up the rig all you would have to do is tension the turnbuckles to the tape?
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
My two cents worth

In my opinion, there is a simple process to setting up a rig. It's a little iterative, but... simple.

In broad terms, you want to get the mast centered in the partners (or at the step, if deck-stepped), then get the masthead centered over the boat, then get everything "in column" between those two points, and then snugged up to keep it that way.

First, as a check, measure from the mast partners to the chainplate on each side. I've never seen this on an Ericson, but on some boats the hole for the mast isn't centered between the chainplates (!). Not much you can do about it, but good to know while you're tuning the rig. If the rig is deck-stepped, you may be able to move the step to correct this. If keel stepped, you may be able to block the mast at the partners to mitigate it. Either way, you want the mast at the deck to be as centered between the chainplates as possible.

Next step is to center the masthead over the boat. Check this by either raising a long tape-measure to the top of the mast using the main halyard, or using the main halyard itself *if* there is little or no stretch in the halyard. The process is to touch the tape (or the halyard shackle) against the chainplate on either side of the boat. When the distance from masthead to chainplate is the same on both sides, the masthead is centered between the chainplates. at that point you can snug up both upper shrouds equally - snug, but not tight.

Then, sighting up the luff track, check to see that the mast is straight between the gooseneck and the masthead. If the rig has double-spreaders, I find it easiest to work from the top down, but that's just a preference. The main thing is, you want to get the mast "in column", and then snug the lowers (and intermediates, if present) equally so that it stays that way. Check often by sighting up the luff track to be sure it is staying straight as you go. When you're done, snug everything up evenly in pairs (both uppers, an equal number of turns, then both intermediates, etc) so that the wires feel "firm", not "sloppy".

At that point, you have a straight, centered mast at the dock. The only remaining question is how much to (evenly) tighten those shrouds so it stays that way when sailing. The best way, IMO, is to go sailing. Pick a calm day (morning, light breeze, flat water) and put the boat close-hauled on one tack. Check to see whether the leeward shrouds get any slack in them. If they do, snug them up (not tight!), and keep track of how many turns you adjusted each turnbuckle. Then tack, put the boat close-hauled on the other board, and adjust the leeward turnbuckles by the same number of turns. Repeat this process a few times, checking straightness by sighting up the mast track periodically, until the leeward shrouds show little or no softness on either tack. They don't have to be super-tight - don't over-tighten them - they're to hold the mast upright and straight, not sling it through the bottom of the boat like an arrow from a bowstring.

ObNote, while I love Loos gauges for dinghies and small boats, I lose confidence in their consistency as the wire size grows. At some point, the Loos gauge is telling you how stiff the wire is rather than how taut it is. YMMV, but once you get to 1x19 wire of 3/16" or larger, I think the Loos gauge loses much of its utility. Just my opinion.

Note, too, that many of the Ericson owner's-manuals have their recommended process for tuning a rig. The E32 manual, for example (available in the downloads section) walks through the whole process, including a couple of tidbits about relative tension between the forward-lowers and aft-lowers, and putting a small amount of rake into the rig by adjusting headstay and backstay.

Bruce

Edited to add: it's important to check spreader angles as part of the rig tuning process, too. The angles between the shroud and the spreader should be the same both above and below the spreader. In math terms, the spreader should "bisect the angle" that the shroud-wire forms as it bends around the tip of the spreader. This ensures that the spreader is in compression, and not being tempted to slip up or down on the shroud. Often overlooked, but important.
 
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alcodiesel

Bill McLean
At this rate I'll know everything in about 40 years. I'll be 97.

Thank you, fellas. This got me off the thinking a Loos is the end all of tuning. What is described above Jibes (haha) exactly with what I find in many articles on the internet. I can do this. I believe the stays are way too tight on this boat, although she sails equally well on both tacks.

My son and I are going sailing this afternoon and we will give the rig a "feel" and see what's up, and report back here.

Merry Christmakwaanzchukahsolstice!
 

frick

Member III
Rig Tension

Like the fellow before me...
I use my halyard as my measure stick... IF the mast head is straight then I check the tension.... by sound. I have a good musical ear and can hear minute difference is pitch....

The ultimate test for me...

Go for sail... Check the mast on every tack for straightness, fall off or bending.

Also I check the leeward stays while under sail, as I don't want them flopping around.

I tweak it all tills its right. I guess I too cheap to buy the gauge.

Rick+
 

Dave N

Member III
simple...

Tuning The Rig

by Bill Shaw

The following generally applies to cruising boats where once the rig is set to maintain a straight

mast, no further adjustment is necessary.

Preparation

Make sure:


weights, sails, anchors, rodes, life rafts or dingys are in their normal place while sailing;


all halyards are set up tight;


fuel & water is either full or nearly empty;


the main boom is secured so that it cannot move. Locate it on the boat’s center line;


bilges are pumped out.

In addition, the mainsail and jib can be in a sail bag located F&A where their cg is located.

Tuning the Rig

The objective is to adjust rigging so that the mast is straight under
most conditions. Shrouds and

stays need not be tensioned beyond this amount.

Step l.
Choose a day when wind is minimum and waves are small. Slack off the main halyard

so that the mainsail shackle just clears the deck or cabin top. Measure the distance from the

shackle to the after side of the mast and compare this with the number noted on the sail plan

(most often found at the top of the mast on the drawing). If this dimension is missing, then a

figure of 6" to l2" may be used. If the boat has a strong weather helm, the mast needs to be

straightened up. If it has a lee helm, more rake is necessary. You should have a weather helm

(not too much), at all times except in gusting conditions. Avoid too much weather helm—it slows

the boat and when beating to windward, produces too much leeway. Under moderate

conditions, the rudder angle should be about 3 degrees. As you see, this is an exercise in trial

and error. Adding to the problem, adjustments of rake may make the headstay too tight or too

slack. If either occurs, you need to match turn for turn. For example, if you slack the backstay 3

turns, then tighten the headstay 3 turns, etc. If possible, get a sailmaker to assist.

Step 2.
Check that the mast is vertical. Again, using the main halyard as a measuring device,

bring the main halyard shackle down to the deck at the upper shroud. Have someone cleat off

the main halyard when the halyard is taut and the shackle is just touching the deck. Now toss

the halyard over to the other side and without touching the cleated halyard, measure the

distance from the bottom of the shackle to the deck. If the shackle touches the deck with ease,

you will have to tighten the turnbuckle on the opposite side. You may have to do this several

times until you get the same amount of tension on each side.

Step 3.
Now it’s time to go to sea and adjust the shrouds so that the mast will remain straight on

both tacks under moderate conditions (8-12 kn. of wind). As you sight up the aft side of the

mast, it should appear straight on either tack. If it falls off to leeward at the top of the mast,

tighten the windward upper shroud. If the top hooks to windward then slack the windward upper

shroud. You may have to do this several times. Remember not to add
more tension. If you

tighten one shroud, then slack the other. Too much tension will cause the mast to bend.

Once you have a straight mast near the top, you may find it necessary to adjust the lower

shrouds in a similar manner. When at rest the aft lowers should be quite slack and the forward

lowers should be firm (but not overly so).

Step 4.
The headstay sag should be done with your sailmaker on board. Designs which are

raced, like the l0M or P30, really need an adjustable backstay with limits in order to avoid too

much tension.
 

alcodiesel

Bill McLean
I took a yard stick and can measure 1 to 2 inch "play" (Ericson 27 op. man. term) on all shrouds, the upper being more toward 1 inch. I am no longer concerned they are too tight. It was my small-boat-experience-nerves acting up.

I did measure a quarter inch difference between the upper shrouds to the chain plates. I don't think this warrants any adjustment for the sake of adjustment as she points equally well on either tack.

At another time I'll make more careful measurements and etc.

Thank you for your help...
 
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