rig tension - tuning and new sail

[Schrewsburyduo]

I am writing to ask the Ericson experts to weigh in on a tuning question. I had my yard tune the rig because I don't know how to get it straight and I never tuned a double spreader rig. So then came in the new sail...

When up in the slip, the sail looked weird with a little crease parallel to the mast. The sailmaker mentioned I should do a few tuning changes to match the main to the mast. But I am not eager since the suggestions seem weird. He says that the tension on the luff is too great -- that I should ease the halyard until it's just enough tension to hold the luff straight. Then he said that I should do the following: tightening the aft lowers and easing the upper shrouds slightly.

This does not seem right to me. I would think that since there is extra sail material that is not stretched, I should bend the mast forward in the middle and back at the top. This would mean easing the aft lowers and tightening the forward lowers, as well as tensioning the backstay more. I don't understand what the upper shrouds have to do with any of this.... I would rather leave them alone. SO.... when looking at the pictures -- does anyone have suggestions?

I would like the rig tuned so that it can withstand high winds. 20-30, so that in a blow we can do well. I will take a hit on light wind performance... But the sail should look better than this -- Or perhaps I am worried about nothing, and once we're actually sailing this will be just fine... I know that in a slip things look different because the sail is not actually letting draft past as the boat is not moving, etc. Any thoughts?

Many thanks!

 

[Loren Beach]

That's one Interesting Sail.
No offense intended, but batten lengths are unusual for their location. Reef point locations are even More unusual.

(Must be OK, per customer order, however. I used to sell sails and followed the customer's wishes closely - given that it was his money.)

One little nit pick: IMHO: the sail maker owes you a class emblem (Ericson logo) and really should have put the sail # on it.
Paltry $, compared to the total cost of a new sail.

I agree that the vertical wrinkle looks like it was planned for some permanent mast bend. Maybe 1500 to 2K on the backstay? Some tension on the forward lowers? Hopefully Seth can check in and add to or correct my observations.

Let us know how the sails now! Usually a new sail majorly transforms the performance of any boat!

Cheers,
Loren

 

[Schrewsburyduo]

Funny you should mention that. I asked for "deeper reefs 1 and 2" but instead of a deeper 1 and 2 they made the sail with a 2 and 3rd reef placement. They do owe me an actual first reef, and I sent the sail back for that change to be made -- not sure how that will work out with that little batten which is right where the first reef should be... They are also including the ericson logo which I had asked for but they didn't put in initially, plus I asked for loose footed and they sent a bolt rope... so it was botched a bit, but they are making good on that... I just need to know if I need to ask them to fix the wrinkle stuff as well, or is that something that is a good thing.... I don't need numbers as I never race... The sail itself looks good, so I am inclined to go with it -- it's a company that I have dealt with before -- I had 4 sails made by them and they have been good to me. Actually the design of the bottom i kind of like -- they stopped the cross cutting so the extra sail past 90 degree next to the boom looks more like triradial. Hopefully it sails well...

 

[Emerald]

I want to say right up front that I'm not a sail expert, but it's like they got your sail swapped with someone else's. Too much is wrong, and did you want it to be short on the foot? I don't know if it's the picture or not, but it looks like you have a lot of extra material in the luff area - I don't think of Ericson's as being bendy rigs for tightening this up. I don't know enough to say, but I am wondering if the only solution to get the sail right is to start over? My experience has been you pay a lot of money for good sails, but they transform the boat. I had a staysail made offshore based on description, and it came out nice, but then I had the local Quantum loft come and make my yankee (which included coming to the boat and meeting with me to discuss options while looking at it), and wow, what a sail! They also looked at the staysail while they were at it and made some minor tweaks that made it better, so there really is an art and getting someone who knows your boat and the conditions you sail in to dial it in seems to be a big part of success.

 

[Christian Williams]

For comparison, here is a new UK Tape Drive mainsail on an Ericson 32-3 (full length battens only on top, a common choice).

Maybe it's an optical effect, but your sail appears to have no roach. The battens are all wrong. The panels are cut nonstandard, at least to my eye.

They fouled up your order for the reef points. Reef points as you have them are obviously bizarre. Failure to call you to discuss tht "order" suggests total lack of supervision.

Sorry, but there's no sense beating around the bush--even if you got this sail for free, you'll have to look at it every time your hoist it.

PS--The sailmaker mentioned I should do a few tuning changes to match the main to the mast.

You gotta be kidding about that part.

Regards,
Christian

 

[Schrewsburyduo]

thanks all for the input. I do feel like they botched it up. I would like it fixed at least for now as I would like to sail this season, and starting from scratch means I get a sail sometime in October...

The foot length is not an issue as the boom is not original - it's a tad longer.

There is some roach on the sail. And the reef # 1will be added...

I think next sail will be a quality loft like NS.... This taught me enough about that.

 

[Loren Beach]

Main Sail shape...

Focusing on Main Sail shape, go to reply 32 in this thread for a look at our main... That's a UKSails dacron that's over a decade old, IIRC.
Note that it sets Very Well.
Getting a great quality long-lasting dacron sail can be done from a "name brand" sailmaker, and the price is reasonable.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?1729-Self-Tacking-Jibs-anyone/page3

Just another data point when contemplating/evaluating quotes from brands you know and some brands that advertise only the virtue of low price.


Best of luck to you!

Loren

 

[Schrewsburyduo]

So after having me send the sail back for them to repair it turns out they just refunded my the money. Pretty crappy altogether. The guy was so defensive about his sail design as if he was designing for the America's cup. The least they could have done would have been to let me know that they are refunding and not recutting the sail -- I lost a week in the whole deal.. The outfit was FX sails, and although I liked sails they made for me before I would strongly say based on all of these experiences... stay away from them...

Now for the future -- I am ready to order from a decent loft. Any ideas? I am looking for quick turnaround -- and this is tough now that it's sumer.. Someone recommended a loft in NJ - Another Ericson owner who loves his mainsail this loft made for him. Should I go with the big lofts like North UK etc?

Many thanks.
SD

 

[Loren Beach]

So after having me send the sail back for them to repair it turns out they just refunded my the money. Pretty crappy altogether. The guy was so defensive about his sail design as if he was designing for the America's cup. The least they could have done would have been to let me know that they are refunding and not recutting the sail -- I lost a week in the whole deal.. The outfit was FX sails, and although I liked sails they made for me before I would strongly say based on all of these experiences... stay away from them...

Now for the future -- I am ready to order from a decent loft. Any ideas? I am looking for quick turnaround -- and this is tough now that it's sumer.. Someone recommended a loft in NJ - Another Ericson owner who loves his mainsail this loft made for him. Should I go with the big lofts like North UK etc?

Many thanks.
SD

In my experience over the years, I have found that the "big lofts" often can match or come close to what I would call the Best of the Discounters. I have had great service from the dacron sails I bought from the NW UKSails loft and my newest sail is from the North loft near our moorage.
OTOH, one of my best friends has been an agent for Lee Sails for 20 years and I have seen very good dacron sails from him, on quite a few local boats. Price point will be a bit lower, too.

You might want to put out a sort of "sail request for bids" to your local lofts within a certain ## mile radius and see what you come up with.
To echo something (our very own sail guru) Seth told us here a while back, it's a plus to have a quality sail on a boat with your boat's pedigree. After all, somewhere out there in the unknown future you might have to sell it and good quality sails will attract more buyers.

Additionally, I have found that better lofts will never quibble over putting on your Ericson emblem and at least your boat's "one design" number (even if your boat does not have an assigned USSailing #).

Hopefully some local sailors can pass along their experiences of who to trust .... and perhaps who not to....


Regards,
Loren

 

[Christian Williams]

What sailmakers have local reps? Often the rep is well known, and will measure and deliver and fit, and his reputation is riding on the outcome. There ought to be lots of candidates within an hour or two from Shrewsbury.

Unfortunately it's the wrong time of year to get anything fast from a sailmaker, so FX has done you a real disservice. But good to be rid of that sail, at least.

Cheers (well, anyway...),
Christian

 

[Schrewsburyduo]

That's exactly who I found. Real nice guy. He makes sails himself but only for high end racers. He is representative for a loft in the Far East. He comes to the boat and measures it and specs it as if he were making it himself and his reputation is on the line. The price is reasonable compared to the quote ingot from ns. Keep fingers crossed. This lead was from an ericson owner contact who had his main done through this guy he and loves it. Incidentally there are now three ericson in my marina. There's also a 29 and a 37.

 

[Randy Rutledge]

Was Bill James the FX rep you talked to? I bought FX in 2007 from him and they were well made and fit to my E29. I have moved to Waters Sails since I am racing a Mirage 236 now and Joe Waters also races a Mirage 236. It is a challenge to find the sail maker you can relate to and that you can trust.