Repower. E28+

[rpm]

I have the original Universal 2cyl diesel from when the boat was built in 1981. It has apparently been well maintained and runs like a swiss watch......but.....the mechanic says years of saltwater cooling inevitably will soon shut her down. Plan accordingly. It has 3or 4k hours. Should I replace it? If so,what with? I just bought the E28+ in Seattle and wasn't planning on this one. Should I ignore it because it starts and runs perfectly now?

Also the engine well accumulates water from a tiny drip at the prop packing which is norma . Has anyone drilled a hole through the well to drain it into the bilge?

 

[Loren Beach]

Hours and Drips

I am puzzled. I thought that all of those Universal diesels had a closed cooing system. I take it yours does not have a heat exchanger attached across the rear of the engine over the 'bell housing"?


As for total hours, I once called up Universal(&Westerbeke) right after we bought our boat. This was back in '95, or so. An engineer there told me that those engines should easily go to 4500 hours and normally quite a bit beyond before needing any rebuilding.

Under that "Universal" label is a very tough Kubota industrial strength engine, with the marinizing parts added in the US. His emphasis was on keeping good oil in it and just paying attention to regular maintenance.

Do you have a digital picture of your engine to post up?

As for the packing gland, if adjusted properly and the packing is not too old and compressed, there should be no drips unless the shaft is turning.
That's the "tried and true advice" on those... and after finding out that I was poorly qualified to adjust that fitting, I replaced ours with a PSS shaft seal almost 20 years ago.

Regards,
Loren

 

[Pat O'Connell]

E 28+

Hi Respected Sailors
Our 1981 E28+ must be a sistership. We changed it over from sw to fw in 1982. The problem that we had was temperature regulation. Never could get it quite right but it was a cold water spring that year. The FW cooling has been great. Mooring next to ours has a 1978 atomic 4 that was not fwc until the year before last. It still runs great. I often wonder if I really had to do all that fwc work.
Stuffing box has not leaked for years. We use the teflon impregnated packing with teflon stuffing box grease from West.
Welcome to the site. A lot of good smart sailors here.
Best Regards
Pat O'Connell
1981 E18+ Chips

 

[Pat O'Connell]

1981 e28+

Sorry did not directly answer your questions.
No. If the 5411 runs great keep it running.
No. It you drill that hole spilled oil or other engine debris will end up in the bilge where it will more difficult to clean up. The engine bilge is easy to clean. Just get the drip under
better control.
Best Regards
Pat

 

[rpm]

Sorry did not directly answer your questions.
No. If the 5411 runs great keep it running.
No. It you drill that hole spilled oil or other engine debris will end up in the bilge where it will more difficult to clean up. The engine bilge is easy to clean. Just get the drip under
better control.
Best Regards
Pat[/QUOTE

is

 

[rpm]

Sorry did not directly answer your questions.
No. If the 5411 runs great keep it running.
No. It you drill that hole spilled oil or other engine debris will end up in the bilge where it will more difficult to clean up. The engine bilge is easy to clean. Just get the drip under
better control.
Best Regards
Pat

Sorry did not directly answer your questions.
No. If the 5411 runs great keep it running.
No. It you drill that hole spilled oil or other engine debris will end up in the bilge where it will more difficult to clean up. The engine bilge is easy to clean. Just get the drip under
better control.
Best Regards
Pat[/QUOTE

is

Is it possible to convert from sea water cooled to fresh water closed cooling on this dinasour? That would be great! I thought the Atomic was a gas engine, right? is there anything doable to flush out the rust?
I can buy a sponge to clean up the dripping but it can reach the fast tank and engine bottom after a few days. Not a healthy situation long term.

 

[Pat O'Connell]

E 28+ fwc

Hi RPM
Good to hear from you! The stuff box needs a repack. It is leaking way too much. At most a few drips while the engine is running. As Loren advised. Mine does not leak at all with the teflon packing and the teflon grease. The engine bilge on our 28+ overflows to the main bilge without sw touching the engine. We tested it this Spring. Did not tighten stuff box enough after a repack way too long interval (read many seasons.) I put the engine in reverse and it leaked enough to fill the engine bilge and flow into the main bilge. Why did I think hand tight would work last spring??? We never did it before! Bad on me... A little quick wrench work and we were fine. Your bilges may be a little different. We do not have the triax framing that most 28+ bilges have. Normal stringers but they are great. I think our hull was one of the first 28+ built.

Atomic 4 is gas. Just illustrating that a very very old engine can be converted to fwc. It is working fine "so far."

If your engine has been seriously overheated it would not be a good idea to spend the time on fwc. Look for scorch marks or paint peeled on the block. Thats not a good sign but not terminal. We bought all our fwc plumbing from Sendur. They are still in business. The only cooler that would fit was their can style. It looks like the WW II German hand grenades. We needed to use one size bigger than what Sendur suggested to get good cooling. Sorry I can give you the dims for the one that did not work that is in the basement but not the one that is covered on the boat. We mounted the can on a little custom bracket just inside the engine hatch screwed to the wood bulkhead just to the side and under the galley sink. The overflow is clear tubed up to a plastic overflow tank on the shelf next to the trash bin. The tanks are soo high in relation to the engine that the air trapped in the system clears right thru when I change the afreeze. Mounting and changing the fw water pump is a real ''''''''. It is on the back side of the swpump. My time is about 4 hours. Once we installed a sherwood pump that had a warped mounting flange. I should have checked it for flatness before installation, my bad again. It was 1/8 or so out of flat. Gasket would not compensate for that much dimension. I bet that would have resulted in a stripped mount bolt or a broken flange casting I don't know but I think that would have been a constant oil weep too. I had a good helper and we replaced it in under two hours as we had all the tools out and we rolled like cardio surgeons. Only missed a morning of the summer cruise to Cape Cod!!! Good news the fw pump lasts forever (he said.)

Cleaning rust from the block? Sorry I do not have a clue. We fw flushed a few times and did the change. The old old Atomic 4 owner did the same thing.
Best Regards
Pat O'Connell
1981 E28+ Chips
Universal 5411

 

[dt222]

Flush

As far as flushing the rust out, even though your engine is not an Atomic 4, you could check out how to flush an A4 on the Moyer Marine site. There are 2 basic approaches- one is a vinegar flush, and one that is a muriatic acid flush. In my A4 (raw water cooled) I flush with vinegar every year, and muriatic acid every 3 years.

Di

 

[Pat O'Connell]

E28+ Flush

Hi Respected Sailors
The word flush can be misleading. I had a friend hook up a fw water pressured hose to his saltwater intake and run the engine and the pressured hose at the same time. WOW. Results were a frozen motor when the pressure fw contaminated the engine oil. The little diesel engine seized and had to be replaced! I guess the moral to the story is always let the engine drink from a bucket so you don't give it more water than the water pump and engine can take. Don and I must be doing it right as our engines still run!
Best Regards
Pat O'Connell
1981 E 28+ Chips
Universal 5411

 

[rpm]

universal 5411. rpm original 1981 cont.

Hi Respected Sailors
The word flush can be misleading. I had a friend hook up a fw water pressured hose to his saltwater intake and run the engine and the pressured hose at the same time. WOW. Results were a frozen motor when the pressure fw contaminated the engine oil. The little diesel engine seized and had to be replaced! I guess the moral to the story is always let the engine drink from a bucket so you don't give it more water than the water pump and engine can take. Don and I must be doing it right as our engines still run!
Best Regards
Pat O'Connell
1981 E 28+ Chips
Universal 5411

We are indeed talking about the same engine, I confirmed. I had a manifold replacement in 2004 I found. No evidence of overheating. I am having the exhaust replaced so maybe that is a good time to repack the shaft. You are right about that. Based on your input I am going to keep it and delay repowering.
Any opinion about replacing the two blade prop with a three blade prop while she is being bottom painted next month?
I like your hand grenade solution for fwc. Now I have invented a laboriou method of gravity feeding fw through a hose connected to the fuel strainer after use. Strictly preventive and the experienced ones say do t waste my time.
If I do flush it out with a descaler can resulting floating rust flakes cause blockages?
I have a closed engine bildge on three sides so drippage is going go be a problem. Thinking of drilling a weep hole con ected to a hose go the bilge. No dripped oil evident down there.
You guys are being a great help.

 

[Loren Beach]

Props

We are indeed talking about the same engine, I confirmed. I had a manifold replacement in 2004 I found. No evidence of overheating. I am having the exhaust replaced so maybe that is a good time to repack the shaft. You are right about that. Based on your input I am going to keep it and delay repowering.
Any opinion about replacing the two blade prop with a three blade prop while she is being bottom painted next month?
I like your hand grenade solution for fwc. Now I have invented a laboriou method of gravity feeding fw through a hose connected to the fuel strainer after use. Strictly preventive and the experienced ones say do t waste my time.
If I do flush it out with a descaler can resulting floating rust flakes cause blockages?
I have a closed engine bildge on three sides so drippage is going go be a problem. Thinking of drilling a weep hole con ected to a hose go the bilge. No dripped oil evident down there.
You guys are being a great help.

Regarding the prop question, we have a couple years with a fixed two blade, ten years with a two blade featherer, and now several years with a three blade fixed.
Best and most controlled backing up and general maneuvering was with the featherer. Of course it was a half knot faster under sail, too. (When budget allows, we will change again to a feathering three blade!)

Best power and thrust is with the fixed three blade, by far.
So-so for reversing -- plenty of thrust, but some obvious port walk, too.

By comparison, our boat could motor about 6.5 with the various two blade varieties.

With the present three blade, she does 7.0 or 7.1 all the time, slowing down to mid 6's only for chop.

Powering, I run it at the 2500 rpm the book recommends.
As noted, we do pay a price when sailing, however.

Loren

 

[Pat O'Connell]

E28+ Props and Cooling

Hi Respect Sailors
Haven't got a clue on props. Ours is two bladed and works fine.
On cooling we missed sharing a real good tip! I paid mercilessly for a Gates hose that is coil reinforced which is essential. The super expensive hose that I bought has a unique wire molded in to one side. The wire permits the bending of the hose anywhichway that you want without collapsing the hose. I can almost make a 90 degree corner and the hose stays bent the way you want it. We can still take the hose off the barbs and put it back on again after 30 plus years. No hose collapses anywhere. Expensive but nice material. I would buy that product again.
Best Regards
Pat O'Connell
1981 E 28+ Chips
Universal 5411

 

[Pat O'Connell]

Flushing 5411

Hi RPM
Flushing the sw block after every use!!! You deserve a commendation of some sort! I think that block has got to be in great shape (I hope?) I would guess that you are not going to have much scale in there. Check your output from your next fresh water flush. If it is scale free or just has a little you should be good enough to fwc. Never tried vinegar but that sounds pretty mild to me? Those folks Don recommends at Moyer Marine really know their stuff I would be inclined to take their advice even tho you don't run a Atomic 4. Sorry, free advice could be worth what you pay for it? (Batteries not included, some assy required, objects in your rear view may be closer than you think) My heart surgeon did give me a "unlimited lifetime guarantee" that has worked terrific, so far.
Best Regards
Pat O'Connell
1981 E28+ Chips
Unniversal 5411