Heater Install Questions

[Nick J]

I'm not sure where this is going to end up on my priority list, but with the colder weather creeping in lately it's definitely occupied my mind more frequently. There's a lot of conversation on here around hydronic vs forced air vs bulkhead heaters, but one item I can't get around is where and how to run the hoses. Specifically how do I get from the aft lazarett to the cabin on a forward head layout.

On the starboard side there's the ice box if I went low and cabinets if I went high. There's a little room under the ice boxes, but once I got to the sette, I'd run into the water tank. Going high directly under the side deck would be difficult to get down to where the heat exchanger or vent outlet would be and would be difficult to tuck under the headliner.

The port seems a little more doable, but I'd have to expose the fuel tank compartment to rout along the side of the tank. I'm also not finding a simple path between that compartment and the nav desk. Once I'm in the sette locker area, it's pretty easy to find a spot for a vent or heat exchanger and continue to the V birth where a second unit could be located under the V birth.

So what have others done on their forward head boats (32, 35, 38)? What areas did you find difficult to work around and how did you solve the problem? Pics of the install would be great too.

 

[bsangs]

While I have no pictures for you Nick, sorry, I can tell you the previous owner installed a heating system on my 35-3, the guts of which are located in a "hidden" cubby behind the forward most starboard settee cushion. Ventilation hoses run from that into the V-berth closet, and he installed vents in the closet - one which blows into the V-berth, the other into the saloon. Appears that the heating hoses running from the engine go under the galley sink, then under or behind the galley stove. I don't know exactly, as it isn't a system I've explored completely yet, since I haven't had to use it. But the previous owner used it all the time during his long stays on Block Island and showed me how to use it, if I ever need it. When I'm back at the boat next week, I'll try to snap some photos.

 

[Nick J]

Thanks, I'm looking forward to the pics. Do you know if it has a boiler or just engine coolant driven?

 

[bsangs]

Thanks, I'm looking forward to the pics. Do you know if it has a boiler or just engine coolant driven?

I believe it's engine driven, based on the hose plumbed into the engine. I know the manual for the system is in one of my folders in the nav desk, so will take a look at that too. Be a few days before I'm back there, as I have to do boring on-land things for the weekend.

 

[reginaldobaker]

Guess one big advantage of a bulkhead mounted unit is the simplicity of not really needing substantial lengths of hose..

Not sure how this translates to the E-32|35|38, on my 27 the espar unit is stern mounted and the hose is routed under the v-berth basically laying on the hull. It terminates adjacent to the engine compartment access, under the companionway.

Edit: Not sure what tankage/obstacles you're facing but if routing to two/more termination points would assume you could get away with smaller diameter hose and more finesse routing

 

[bsangs]

Here you go Nick. In photo order, from the engine, runs under the galley sink, under the stove, through the settee cubbies, then vent hoses run from cubby into v-berth closet (not shown) and vented into the cabin. Didn't show the v-berth vent, but it's the same thing as in the cabin. Hope the visuals help somewhat.

 

[Nick J]

Thank you, that's really helpful!

 

[Christian Williams]

I take it that this unit uses hot engine coolant as the heat source, with vents and fans.

How does that work in practice? How much engine time is required to provide basic heating?

 

[bsangs]

I take it that this unit uses hot engine coolant as the heat source, with vents and fans.

How does that work in practice? How much engine time is required to provide basic heating?

Well that's where my lack of use comes in. I haven't had to use it. If I need heat and I'm connected to shore power, I fire up my portable heater. Didn't have any need for heat this summer - on shore power, or mooring ball. Previous owner showed me how to use it. He used it regularly. Said he'd seal up the cabin, run the engine for about an hour, and the heater would suck the chill out of the air for the night. Now, mind you, we're talking cool spring/fall nights, not terribly frigid temps.

 

[Christian Williams]

For that application I am currently just running the propane stove burners a while. At night the temp "plummets" (this is SoCal, but 50 degrees is cold on a boat at breakfast.) I used to charter a boat with a solid-fuel bulkhead heater, which I thought worked pretty well. I almost installed one on Thelonious II, they're not expensive, but concluded that the hole in the cabin house and the Charlie Nobel and the lost cabin space were not quite worth it for me.

Winter sailing is a great experience, though, in temperate zones where the boat stays in the water, and a bit of heat makes it attractive to family. Empty harbors, light winds, a hot toddy over a game of whist. (what malarky--I hate card games)

 

[ConchyDug]

For winter sailing in Texas we just fire the stovetop up and put an upside down terracotta pot over a burner. The ceramic pot seems to radiate heat better than just firing the stove up. Plus it's great to confuse people when you exclaim that the "pot" needs to be secured before we start racing. In humid 50 degree weather this dries the boat out and warms it up for the night. Those propane cabin heaters are the cat's colon though.

 

[Loren Beach]

Regarding a fan-ventilated engine coolant heater, we have had one for about 15 years or more. I plumbed it in series with the coolant hose from the the engine to the hot water tank. Once the engine warms up for about 20 minutes, we have hot water from the taps and the "Heatercraft" unit puts out huge amounts of heat in the cabin. Its fan has three speeds but we only use the lowest speed regularly. Medium and High fan speeds put out too much heat. Motoring up the WA coast for 26 hours it will effortlessly keep the cabin temp in the 80's. That's when the ambient is in the 40's to low 50's, at sea. That's running the engine at cruising RPM of about 2500.

Remember that your "little" diesel engine produces a lot of waste heat. I have noticed that running the heater fan at engine-idle will slightly lower the operating temperature of the engine, so the heater does really remove significant heat from the coolant system.

Finally, we are super happy this year to have an Espar furnace. Now... we can be very warm at anchor, too.

 

[haytor]

This is the answer....all you need is this, 12 volt wore for fan and run a hose from Outside vented locker to the Heater, can be bought used for $4-600.00....
It has a unique double wall chimney so air is sucked in from Chimney and then exhaust goes back out the inside pipe .......

 

[reginaldobaker]

This is the answer....all you need is this, 12 volt wore for fan and run a hose from Outside vented locker to the Heater, can be bought used for $4-600.00....
It has a unique double wall chimney so air is sucked in from Chimney and then exhaust goes back out the inside pipe .......

Are you referring to an espar unit?

 

[haytor]

Are you referring to an espar unit?

My apoligies i meant to attach the heater...its $1,200.00 canadian for the 1200 model

Buy Dickinson P12000 Newport Propane Fireplace Heater in Canada Binnacle.com

ca.binnacle.com

 

[Nick J]

Bulkhead heaters are good options with their simplicity and lower cost, but they have their drawbacks. Most still need to run fuel and electricity (if required with a powered fan), the chimney through the cabin top creates some issues to work around, it takes up cabin space, most don't heat up water, and they aren't as controllable as other options.

I had an old force 10 kerosene bulkhead heater on my E25+ that I loved tinkering with. How it worked was fascinating and getting a proper flame out of it was satisfying, but it was dangerous, didn't heat well, often smoked out the cabin when lit too soon or flared up in a fireball when applying additional alcohol before it was cooled down again, and the chimney penetration was a source for core rot (fixed with a piece of g10). Modern bulkhead heaters are much better, but still not what I'm looking for.