Does anyone know, for certain, if the 38 and 38-200 have identical transoms? We are ordering a Monitor windvane and Scanmar has measurements for a 38 from previous orders. It would save time if the measurements match our 200 but only if we know they are definitely the same... Thanks!
E38 vs 38-200 transom design
- Thread starter Ryan L
- Start date
Anyone?!
Only a guess, having seen the original 38 and the Ericson-built 200 series... but I believe that the only change was when PSC changed the deck or hull mold to create a swim platform.
Anyone else? Class??
Bueller?? !!
Loren
Thanks Loren- I vaguely remember reading something about the rig or keel being moved and judging from the pics of an E38 below deck autopilot install at least the interior of the transom is notably different than 38-200. Without any further info Scanmar decided to simply produce custom design drawings based on the measurements from my boat. Good information for anyone else with a 38-200 looking to purchase a Monitor wind vane...
Ryan
Ryan,
Have you had a look at the Sail-0-Mat pendulum vane? The designer in is La Jolla, and I'm going down to talk to him about his product next week.
I am seriously considering it as an alternative to the Monitor jungle gym.
Have you had a look at the Sail-0-Mat pendulum vane? The designer in is La Jolla, and I'm going down to talk to him about his product next week.
I am seriously considering it as an alternative to the Monitor jungle gym.
Oh Vane-ity, thy name is...
My only first-hand offshore experience with a servo-pendulum Monitor vane was a five day delivery down to SF Bay, and it worked wonderfully. The owner did have to replace the air paddle in SF, due to it fracturing from the stresses of a steady clear-air Gale for 36 hours as we transited Mendocino. The paddle did not break off, but likely would have with any more heavy air. And no, I will never forget being surrounded by breaking seas from horizon to horizon in the day light and also in the moon light at night.
(With the fickle-ness of west coast weather... e-yup... we had to motor the last 6 hours to the SF entrance and only then sailed under the bridge where the breeze funnels thru the Golden Gate.)
Gotta say, that having spoken to the single-hander that raced his O-34 to Hawaii on one of the Pacific Cup races with zero problems, I would likely choose his choice, the Sail-O-Mat. Lots less (!) installation hassle, and it dismounts in port with one central attachment place.
IIRC, we have a member here that put on a Cape Horn vane, and I cannot recall if he has reported back with his experiences recently. It ought to work fine, though, based on the same basic principle.
Loren
My only first-hand offshore experience with a servo-pendulum Monitor vane was a five day delivery down to SF Bay, and it worked wonderfully. The owner did have to replace the air paddle in SF, due to it fracturing from the stresses of a steady clear-air Gale for 36 hours as we transited Mendocino. The paddle did not break off, but likely would have with any more heavy air. And no, I will never forget being surrounded by breaking seas from horizon to horizon in the day light and also in the moon light at night.
(With the fickle-ness of west coast weather... e-yup... we had to motor the last 6 hours to the SF entrance and only then sailed under the bridge where the breeze funnels thru the Golden Gate.)
Gotta say, that having spoken to the single-hander that raced his O-34 to Hawaii on one of the Pacific Cup races with zero problems, I would likely choose his choice, the Sail-O-Mat. Lots less (!) installation hassle, and it dismounts in port with one central attachment place.
IIRC, we have a member here that put on a Cape Horn vane, and I cannot recall if he has reported back with his experiences recently. It ought to work fine, though, based on the same basic principle.
Loren
yes, we looked very closely at the sail-o-mat and traded a number of emails with the designer before resolutely choosing Monitor. Here are our reasons why ( sorry for format and typos, am using phone and am on boat now...)
1) unlike monitor the sailomat has no provision for emergency rudder.
2) sailomat is aluminum with tons (a huge number) of steel fasteners (metric...) requiring regular maintenance with tefgel etc
3) sailomat and monitor are both very easy to mount and both removable in port. Monitor has something like 8 bolts to unscrew vs sailomat 4. No big deal.
4) this is a biggie- sailomat changes design every few years with limited to no old parts on hand. Monitor has same proven design for many years with spares easy to get if needed even in remote areas.
5) another biggie- it took multiple attempts to get any reply from sailomat and when I did get a reply it was like "the new design is being made and will be available in a few months. Try then. " Wgen I contacted monitor I had a reply with custom drawings of E38 transom mount options within a few hours. The customer service is night and day difference. Sailomat is one guy, limited production, made in batches overseas. Monitor is full time staffed office, in house custom production (made to order), rapid turn around.
6) monitor frame is actually relatively light and can be climbed on (standing on it is actually one step of the instructions). We intend to use this to help more easily reach our SolarStik and as alternate boarding steps from dinghy.
7) I agree sailomat looks better and the newest design likely works fine from a purely functional standpoint. It is however a new design (again) and therefore relatively untested. Our main concerns are function, reliability, ease of repair (including access to spares), minimal maintenance, emergency rudder, and our experience dealing with the company. Monitor may not be the sexiest piece of kit but it has a proven performance record, amazing customer support, and is the vane we feel most comfortable taking to remote areas.
For or what it's worth we also looked at Cape Horn. Even got to see one installed on an E39 close up. Looks great, even better than a sailomat, but we did not like the many lines and blocks crossing all over hard to access parts of the aft laz. Plus the unit is non removable, a poor (at best) emergency rudder option, and same customer service issues at sailomat.
if we were mainly coastal cruising or were mainly concerned about aesthetics we may have chosen differently. But if you put aesthetics aside to us the choice is clear (for our needs).
Monitor full install
http://www.wbryant.com/StellaBoat/Projects/steering/monitor/index.htm
Even though he is still out cruising, he has maintained his fine web site.
Good article.
LB
http://www.wbryant.com/StellaBoat/Projects/steering/monitor/index.htm
Even though he is still out cruising, he has maintained his fine web site.
Good article.
LB
Alan Gomes
Sustaining Partner
How about Norvane?
The Norvane might also be worth checking out: http://www.selfsteering.com/ I've never seen one in person but have read good things about it. They are located in Carlsbad, CA (not too far from San Diego).
The Norvane might also be worth checking out: http://www.selfsteering.com/ I've never seen one in person but have read good things about it. They are located in Carlsbad, CA (not too far from San Diego).
I smiled when Ryan mentioned Stellan Knoos, the Sail-o-Mat designer/owner/distributor/salesman. Nevertheless I have persevered through two phone conversations and am going to see him. He only has a model of the device, not all of its parts are there, and it is a former generation. (Stellan says he usually has a vane to show you, but is currently sold out. A new shipment of 30 more vanes is scheduled to arrive from Sweden in February)
Yes, I've talked to Monitor and even on the phone it is like chatting with Rolls Royce about your choice of burlwood and preference in cigars.
All these vane guys are eccentric, but I doubt you can beat the fellow who answered the phone for Norvane, which is only an hour or so from where I live. Here's my reconstruction of a call I made last september--after three emails went unanswered.
"Hi, I'm interested in the Norvane, and I was wondering if there is a way I could get a look at one up close.
"Nope."
"Uh, OK. Do you know of any boats with a Norvane on them, so I could maybe speak to an owner?
"All our owners are sailing. That's why they ordered a windvane."
"Makes sense. Well, isn't there a boat somewhere that you know of, in some marina, with one on the stern, so I could at least look at it? All I have to go on is the pictures on your Web site.
"I don't know of any."
"Let me start over. I am in the market for a windvane. Naturally, I would like to know something about the Norvane before I buy it. Or do you expect me to just send a check?
"Send a check and you'll get it by Christmas, not before. I don't have any here."
"But I thought you make them there. How about a tour of the shop?
"The (owner?) doesn't want anybody in the shop."
I started laughing after I hung up, and reluctantly crossed Norvane off the list.
Yes, I've talked to Monitor and even on the phone it is like chatting with Rolls Royce about your choice of burlwood and preference in cigars.
All these vane guys are eccentric, but I doubt you can beat the fellow who answered the phone for Norvane, which is only an hour or so from where I live. Here's my reconstruction of a call I made last september--after three emails went unanswered.
"Hi, I'm interested in the Norvane, and I was wondering if there is a way I could get a look at one up close.
"Nope."
"Uh, OK. Do you know of any boats with a Norvane on them, so I could maybe speak to an owner?
"All our owners are sailing. That's why they ordered a windvane."
"Makes sense. Well, isn't there a boat somewhere that you know of, in some marina, with one on the stern, so I could at least look at it? All I have to go on is the pictures on your Web site.
"I don't know of any."
"Let me start over. I am in the market for a windvane. Naturally, I would like to know something about the Norvane before I buy it. Or do you expect me to just send a check?
"Send a check and you'll get it by Christmas, not before. I don't have any here."
"But I thought you make them there. How about a tour of the shop?
"The (owner?) doesn't want anybody in the shop."
I started laughing after I hung up, and reluctantly crossed Norvane off the list.
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Alan Gomes
Sustaining Partner
Wow, Christian! I'm glad to know this so I won't suggest them to anyone in the future.
It's really strange, though--and sad--because when I contacted them in July of 2008 I received a very different impression. I first called and spoke to someone on the phone and was actually very impressed with how responsive he was and forthcoming with information. I do remember discussing some particular aspects of my boat and getting his suggestions for which model would be best. They also followed up very shortly thereafter with a packet of info in the mail. The info was fairly detailed and told me everything I needed to know.
Clearly something has happened to that company in the meantime....
Maybe the trend is toward autopilots, since there are now so many other reasons to beef up a yacht's electrical system. May mean fewer choices of vanes....
Very Good point. OTOH, given that in any era the number of actual real offshore voyagers on sail boats is infinitesimally small compared to the number of sail boats total, there may be about as much 'market' for these vanes as there ever was in the 70's.
i.e. not very much -- just little mom-n-pop machine shops supplying them.
I would then wonder if the sale of electronic AP's for medium and larger boats is more a symptom of the boating version of the virus, "Afluenza".
With the whole market swerving upwards to 35 to 40 foot boats for new sailors, there's a whole additional market for electrical gizmo's of all sorts. And this new market segment has more money to spend and far less comprehension of the limitations of expecting this gear to work (and reliably continue to work) in a salty environment.
Much as I love technology, when you are on the open sea and cross seas burst over the cabin top and jet spray into the interior through little spaces in the ventilators that you thought... you'd sealed up... at 0300.... :0
you begin to understand some basic truths about yourself, your boat, the equipment you put on that boat, and your preconceived notions of traveling to romantic places by ocean.
That salt mist seeps into all sorts of places that you do not want it and where it will cause immediate or eventual harm.
If heading over the bar to turn north or south like so many sailors I have known, there is no way would I consider the trip without a wind-powered steering vane. All of the cruisers I have known have used wind vanes to steer, BTW.
Just my .01 worth.
Loren
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For what it's worth when I contacted him late last summer he wrote that the shipment was coming in November. Good luck...
Your norvane story was classic.
Excellent link! Thanks!